They don't rank the Champs in drops based on our own bloody perception of "God Tier" versus "Garbage Tier". This is getting way too carried away. The Players have that value system. Not the game, not the developers, and certainly not the RNG for the Crystals. This entire subject just breeds suspicion more and more, like wild fire. I've said it, the Mods have said it, other Players have said it, understanding RNG dictates it, what more would it take? The answer is that no response is sufficient. For some reason, people seem to think the algorithm will be posted. Whatever comes out of this won't make a difference because people who aren't happy with what they pull won't trust anything regardless. They could post the numbers and it won't make a difference because people will still have to pull Champs they don't want. Then the suspicion starts all over again. I'm not engaging in a "You don't know Aliens don't exist for a fact." conversation. Unless people have access to the programming itself, none of us know beyond a doubt. However, some of us understand the general idea of programming and RNG, and have also listened when the response has been given from them time and time again. It's very simple. If it doesn't make sense, it's not true. What I can make sense of is repeats in RNG, and how people only pull for the same few Champs and think the system is rigged because they pulled the 90% remainder of what's left after the "God Tier". SMDH
Wrong. Thay told Seatin that they have an internal tier list. You are spewing misinformation as fact. Again.
So based on a comment passed on second-hand, people have conjectured that the Devs have rated Champs in tandem with the Players' "God Tier" system and are altering drops to limit those Champs from dropping so much. Cool story, bro.
They have their own internal system. It's not that covert. It's called Rating, and we see it everytime we open the game. It has no bearing on the drops.
While there is no reason to believe the devs alter drops based on it, they do in all likelihood measure the performance of all the champions and keep lists of which are high and low performance champions. The primary reason for believing they do, and the NYCC comments are true, is because *all* MMO developers do this. Metrics like this are so standard in the industry that if a Kabam developer said they didn't do it I would question their own knowledge of their own company's operations to their face.
Well of course. That's a constant in analyzing and revising Champs. I just don't agree that they share the same value system as the Players. Certainly not as fanatically. Lol. I am 99% certain they don't alter the drops based on that information.
Then why would you say that their internal system for valuing champions is called "Rating." PI rating has nothing to do with it.
It's another system. When we're talking about the usual "God Tier" vs. "Garbage Tier", I don't believe they share that same view, much less alter availability and drops based on that. I think the comment was taken and stretched to fit.
So once again you’re stating you’re opinion as fact. Unless you’re a secret shopper for Kabam you don’t know.
Oh so this is the part where you further the conspiracy with the whole "don't know for sure" argument. Carry on.
They don't rank the Champs in drops based on our own bloody perception of "God Tier" versus "Garbage Tier". This is getting way too carried away. The Players have that value system. Not the game, not the developers, and certainly not the RNG for the Crystals. This entire subject just breeds suspicion more and more, like wild fire. I've said it, the Mods have said it, other Players have said it, understanding RNG dictates it, what more would it take? The answer is that no response is sufficient. For some reason, people seem to think the algorithm will be posted. Whatever comes out of this won't make a difference because people who aren't happy with what they pull won't trust anything regardless. They could post the numbers and it won't make a difference because people will still have to pull Champs they don't want. Then the suspicion starts all over again. I'm not engaging in a "You don't know Aliens don't exist for a fact." conversation. Unless people have access to the programming itself, none of us know beyond a doubt. However, some of us understand the general idea of programming and RNG, and have also listened when the response has been given from them time and time again. It's very simple. If it doesn't make sense, it's not true. What I can make sense of is repeats in RNG, and how people only pull for the same few Champs and think the system is rigged because they pulled the 90% remainder of what's left after the "God Tier". SMDH
Wrong. Thay told Seatin that they have an internal tier list. You are spewing misinformation as fact. Again.
So based on a comment passed on second-hand, people have conjectured that the Devs have rated Champs in tandem with the Players' "God Tier" system and are altering drops to limit those Champs from dropping so much. Cool story, bro.
They have their own internal system. It's not that covert. It's called Rating, and we see it everytime we open the game. It has no bearing on the drops.
While there is no reason to believe the devs alter drops based on it, they do in all likelihood measure the performance of all the champions and keep lists of which are high and low performance champions. The primary reason for believing they do, and the NYCC comments are true, is because *all* MMO developers do this. Metrics like this are so standard in the industry that if a Kabam developer said they didn't do it I would question their own knowledge of their own company's operations to their face.
Well of course. That's a constant in analyzing and revising Champs. I just don't agree that they share the same value system as the Players. Certainly not as fanatically. Lol. I am 99% certain they don't alter the drops based on that information.
Then why would you say that their internal system for valuing champions is called "Rating." PI rating has nothing to do with it.
It's another system. When we're talking about the usual "God Tier" vs. "Garbage Tier", I don't believe they share that same view, much less alter availability and drops based on that. I think the comment was taken and stretched to fit.
I don't believe that answers my question. If you believe that the devs do in fact keep their own internal ratings of the champions in terms of the devs own view of performance, why would you specifically say that their internal system is called Rating and claim that the PI rating we see is the devs internal system. Why would you specifically say something you're now claiming is untrue.
They don't rank the Champs in drops based on our own bloody perception of "God Tier" versus "Garbage Tier". This is getting way too carried away. The Players have that value system. Not the game, not the developers, and certainly not the RNG for the Crystals. This entire subject just breeds suspicion more and more, like wild fire. I've said it, the Mods have said it, other Players have said it, understanding RNG dictates it, what more would it take? The answer is that no response is sufficient. For some reason, people seem to think the algorithm will be posted. Whatever comes out of this won't make a difference because people who aren't happy with what they pull won't trust anything regardless. They could post the numbers and it won't make a difference because people will still have to pull Champs they don't want. Then the suspicion starts all over again. I'm not engaging in a "You don't know Aliens don't exist for a fact." conversation. Unless people have access to the programming itself, none of us know beyond a doubt. However, some of us understand the general idea of programming and RNG, and have also listened when the response has been given from them time and time again. It's very simple. If it doesn't make sense, it's not true. What I can make sense of is repeats in RNG, and how people only pull for the same few Champs and think the system is rigged because they pulled the 90% remainder of what's left after the "God Tier". SMDH
Wrong. Thay told Seatin that they have an internal tier list. You are spewing misinformation as fact. Again.
So based on a comment passed on second-hand, people have conjectured that the Devs have rated Champs in tandem with the Players' "God Tier" system and are altering drops to limit those Champs from dropping so much. Cool story, bro.
They have their own internal system. It's not that covert. It's called Rating, and we see it everytime we open the game. It has no bearing on the drops.
While there is no reason to believe the devs alter drops based on it, they do in all likelihood measure the performance of all the champions and keep lists of which are high and low performance champions. The primary reason for believing they do, and the NYCC comments are true, is because *all* MMO developers do this. Metrics like this are so standard in the industry that if a Kabam developer said they didn't do it I would question their own knowledge of their own company's operations to their face.
Well of course. That's a constant in analyzing and revising Champs. I just don't agree that they share the same value system as the Players. Certainly not as fanatically. Lol. I am 99% certain they don't alter the drops based on that information.
Then why would you say that their internal system for valuing champions is called "Rating." PI rating has nothing to do with it.
It's another system. When we're talking about the usual "God Tier" vs. "Garbage Tier", I don't believe they share that same view, much less alter availability and drops based on that. I think the comment was taken and stretched to fit.
I don't believe that answers my question. If you believe that the devs do in fact keep their own internal ratings of the champions in terms of the devs own view of performance, why would you specifically say that their internal system is called Rating and claim that the PI rating we see is the devs internal system. Why would you specifically say something you're now claiming is untrue.
The first thing that came to mind was Rating. When we're talking in terms of ranking them, that would be an internal system. I don't consider analyzing performance a "value system" exactly, although I can see how that would apply after you've pointed it out. I don't see it as a value system in the same way the Players see it as a value system. I see that as internal statistics on performance.
They don't rank the Champs in drops based on our own bloody perception of "God Tier" versus "Garbage Tier". This is getting way too carried away. The Players have that value system. Not the game, not the developers, and certainly not the RNG for the Crystals. This entire subject just breeds suspicion more and more, like wild fire. I've said it, the Mods have said it, other Players have said it, understanding RNG dictates it, what more would it take? The answer is that no response is sufficient. For some reason, people seem to think the algorithm will be posted. Whatever comes out of this won't make a difference because people who aren't happy with what they pull won't trust anything regardless. They could post the numbers and it won't make a difference because people will still have to pull Champs they don't want. Then the suspicion starts all over again. I'm not engaging in a "You don't know Aliens don't exist for a fact." conversation. Unless people have access to the programming itself, none of us know beyond a doubt. However, some of us understand the general idea of programming and RNG, and have also listened when the response has been given from them time and time again. It's very simple. If it doesn't make sense, it's not true. What I can make sense of is repeats in RNG, and how people only pull for the same few Champs and think the system is rigged because they pulled the 90% remainder of what's left after the "God Tier". SMDH
Wrong. Thay told Seatin that they have an internal tier list. You are spewing misinformation as fact. Again.
So based on a comment passed on second-hand, people have conjectured that the Devs have rated Champs in tandem with the Players' "God Tier" system and are altering drops to limit those Champs from dropping so much. Cool story, bro.
They have their own internal system. It's not that covert. It's called Rating, and we see it everytime we open the game. It has no bearing on the drops.
While there is no reason to believe the devs alter drops based on it, they do in all likelihood measure the performance of all the champions and keep lists of which are high and low performance champions. The primary reason for believing they do, and the NYCC comments are true, is because *all* MMO developers do this. Metrics like this are so standard in the industry that if a Kabam developer said they didn't do it I would question their own knowledge of their own company's operations to their face.
Well of course. That's a constant in analyzing and revising Champs. I just don't agree that they share the same value system as the Players. Certainly not as fanatically. Lol. I am 99% certain they don't alter the drops based on that information.
Then why would you say that their internal system for valuing champions is called "Rating." PI rating has nothing to do with it.
It's another system. When we're talking about the usual "God Tier" vs. "Garbage Tier", I don't believe they share that same view, much less alter availability and drops based on that. I think the comment was taken and stretched to fit.
So once again you’re stating you’re opinion as fact. Unless you’re a secret shopper for Kabam you don’t know.
Oh so this is the part where you further the conspiracy with the whole "don't know for sure" argument. Carry on.
I’m not furthering any conspiracy that is a conspiracy you’ve made up in your head.
You’re full of double talk and two faced hypocritical illusions.
And if you “don’t know for sure” stop acting like you do. The air of superiority that surrounds you is so vast it would overflow the Grand Canyon.
Tell me. What purpose does that statement make? We don't know for sure. For starters, it's completely arbitrary. None of us know for sure. It's a loop. Not a successful one because no one will know for sure unless they have access to those programs, which will never happen. Those that do have access will not comment out of contractual obligations.
No, the purpose of that statement is two-fold. The first is to argue incessantly because you have an acute habit of arguing with everything that I say and taking personal shots, which is so blatantly obvious that I don't bother responding to it. For someone who claims to be privy to dealing with me, you certainly go out of your way.
The second is to simply feed more into the suspicion by using unanswerable statements. We don't know for sure. None of us will. However, discussing opinions and ideas is exactly why we are here. Thank you for pointing out the obvious.
Uh there are factors that effect drop rate primarily the type of crystal opened. Featured crystals, ultimate crystals, and phc.
Maybe, but my screenshot of the email was for a specific crystal (map 5), there is no type of crystal opened there. They mentioned there are in-game factors even for map 5 crystals. Now, IDK if they should/would give any more info on this, but it is surely not clear to me that it is just random.
Its clear they copy and pasted response from thier support page on crystals. If you think support has intimate knowledge of the game explain to me how they get so many things blantantly wrong time and time again?
We can definitely agree that support don't know the complexities of the game, their scripted responses are evidence of their lack of understanding of the game and the exact issues that we are having. It's like they do a keyword search and copy and paste a snippet back.
Having said that, I don't believe that the forum mods necessarily provide accurate information on all occasions. It may not be because they are trying to misdirect us, sometimes it is just based on what they believe to be the case, or they've been misinformed. There is often a misunderstanding based on what was the intent and what was actually implemented .... e.g. defender rating was intended as a tie breaker, but guess what, when it was called upon, it didn't break ties!
They don't rank the Champs in drops based on our own bloody perception of "God Tier" versus "Garbage Tier". This is getting way too carried away. The Players have that value system. Not the game, not the developers, and certainly not the RNG for the Crystals. This entire subject just breeds suspicion more and more, like wild fire. I've said it, the Mods have said it, other Players have said it, understanding RNG dictates it, what more would it take? The answer is that no response is sufficient. For some reason, people seem to think the algorithm will be posted. Whatever comes out of this won't make a difference because people who aren't happy with what they pull won't trust anything regardless. They could post the numbers and it won't make a difference because people will still have to pull Champs they don't want. Then the suspicion starts all over again. I'm not engaging in a "You don't know Aliens don't exist for a fact." conversation. Unless people have access to the programming itself, none of us know beyond a doubt. However, some of us understand the general idea of programming and RNG, and have also listened when the response has been given from them time and time again. It's very simple. If it doesn't make sense, it's not true. What I can make sense of is repeats in RNG, and how people only pull for the same few Champs and think the system is rigged because they pulled the 90% remainder of what's left after the "God Tier". SMDH
Wrong. Thay told Seatin that they have an internal tier list. You are spewing misinformation as fact. Again.
So based on a comment passed on second-hand, people have conjectured that the Devs have rated Champs in tandem with the Players' "God Tier" system and are altering drops to limit those Champs from dropping so much. Cool story, bro.
They have their own internal system. It's not that covert. It's called Rating, and we see it everytime we open the game. It has no bearing on the drops.
While there is no reason to believe the devs alter drops based on it, they do in all likelihood measure the performance of all the champions and keep lists of which are high and low performance champions. The primary reason for believing they do, and the NYCC comments are true, is because *all* MMO developers do this. Metrics like this are so standard in the industry that if a Kabam developer said they didn't do it I would question their own knowledge of their own company's operations to their face.
Well of course. That's a constant in analyzing and revising Champs. I just don't agree that they share the same value system as the Players. Certainly not as fanatically. Lol. I am 99% certain they don't alter the drops based on that information.
Then why would you say that their internal system for valuing champions is called "Rating." PI rating has nothing to do with it.
It's another system. When we're talking about the usual "God Tier" vs. "Garbage Tier", I don't believe they share that same view, much less alter availability and drops based on that. I think the comment was taken and stretched to fit.
I don't believe that answers my question. If you believe that the devs do in fact keep their own internal ratings of the champions in terms of the devs own view of performance, why would you specifically say that their internal system is called Rating and claim that the PI rating we see is the devs internal system. Why would you specifically say something you're now claiming is untrue.
The first thing that came to mind was Rating. When we're talking in terms of ranking them, that would be an internal system. I don't consider analyzing performance a "value system" exactly, although I can see how that would apply after you've pointed it out. I don't see it as a value system in the same way the Players see it as a value system. I see that as internal statistics on performance.
The context of this specific discussion was the comments made by Kabam at NYCC. Those comments were themselves made in the context of a discussion surrounding Carnage, and whether the devs were both aware of and in agreement with the general consensus of many of the players who thought his design seriously underperformed. The comments made suggested that Kabam was aware of the issues with Carnage, and moreover that Kabam themselves kept lists of high and low performance champions they used for internal guidance on which champions might need adjustments, up or down.
There have been many discussions regarding whether Kabam "sees" the champions as the players do, with some "good" and some "weak." The devs probably don't agree with all of those assessments, but they clearly do have them and admit to having them. They don't contrary to what some have said, believe they are all "equal." The devs rate champions just as we do. Not in the same way we do, in a more quantitative and complex way than we do, but they do.
That's the point players referencing NYCC are making. Past that point, Kabam explicitly refutes the notion that such rankings are used to manipulate the drop system. If you're willing to accept that statement at face value, there's no reason to arbitrarily reject statements Kabam has made about how they view the champions internally in terms of how well they perform.
They don't rank the Champs in drops based on our own bloody perception of "God Tier" versus "Garbage Tier". This is getting way too carried away. The Players have that value system. Not the game, not the developers, and certainly not the RNG for the Crystals. This entire subject just breeds suspicion more and more, like wild fire. I've said it, the Mods have said it, other Players have said it, understanding RNG dictates it, what more would it take? The answer is that no response is sufficient. For some reason, people seem to think the algorithm will be posted. Whatever comes out of this won't make a difference because people who aren't happy with what they pull won't trust anything regardless. They could post the numbers and it won't make a difference because people will still have to pull Champs they don't want. Then the suspicion starts all over again. I'm not engaging in a "You don't know Aliens don't exist for a fact." conversation. Unless people have access to the programming itself, none of us know beyond a doubt. However, some of us understand the general idea of programming and RNG, and have also listened when the response has been given from them time and time again. It's very simple. If it doesn't make sense, it's not true. What I can make sense of is repeats in RNG, and how people only pull for the same few Champs and think the system is rigged because they pulled the 90% remainder of what's left after the "God Tier". SMDH
Wrong. Thay told Seatin that they have an internal tier list. You are spewing misinformation as fact. Again.
So based on a comment passed on second-hand, people have conjectured that the Devs have rated Champs in tandem with the Players' "God Tier" system and are altering drops to limit those Champs from dropping so much. Cool story, bro.
They have their own internal system. It's not that covert. It's called Rating, and we see it everytime we open the game. It has no bearing on the drops.
While there is no reason to believe the devs alter drops based on it, they do in all likelihood measure the performance of all the champions and keep lists of which are high and low performance champions. The primary reason for believing they do, and the NYCC comments are true, is because *all* MMO developers do this. Metrics like this are so standard in the industry that if a Kabam developer said they didn't do it I would question their own knowledge of their own company's operations to their face.
Well of course. That's a constant in analyzing and revising Champs. I just don't agree that they share the same value system as the Players. Certainly not as fanatically. Lol. I am 99% certain they don't alter the drops based on that information.
Then why would you say that their internal system for valuing champions is called "Rating." PI rating has nothing to do with it.
It's another system. When we're talking about the usual "God Tier" vs. "Garbage Tier", I don't believe they share that same view, much less alter availability and drops based on that. I think the comment was taken and stretched to fit.
I don't believe that answers my question. If you believe that the devs do in fact keep their own internal ratings of the champions in terms of the devs own view of performance, why would you specifically say that their internal system is called Rating and claim that the PI rating we see is the devs internal system. Why would you specifically say something you're now claiming is untrue.
The first thing that came to mind was Rating. When we're talking in terms of ranking them, that would be an internal system. I don't consider analyzing performance a "value system" exactly, although I can see how that would apply after you've pointed it out. I don't see it as a value system in the same way the Players see it as a value system. I see that as internal statistics on performance.
The context of this specific discussion was the comments made by Kabam at NYCC. Those comments were themselves made in the context of a discussion surrounding Carnage, and whether the devs were both aware of and in agreement with the general consensus of many of the players who thought his design seriously underperformed. The comments made suggested that Kabam was aware of the issues with Carnage, and moreover that Kabam themselves kept lists of high and low performance champions they used for internal guidance on which champions might need adjustments, up or down.
There have been many discussions regarding whether Kabam "sees" the champions as the players do, with some "good" and some "weak." The devs probably don't agree with all of those assessments, but they clearly do have them and admit to having them. They don't contrary to what some have said, believe they are all "equal." The devs rate champions just as we do. Not in the same way we do, in a more quantitative and complex way than we do, but they do.
That's the point players referencing NYCC are making. Past that point, Kabam explicitly refutes the notion that such rankings are used to manipulate the drop system. If you're willing to accept that statement at face value, there's no reason to arbitrarily reject statements Kabam has made about how they view the champions internally in terms of how well they perform.
Having not been there myself, I can't say much on the discussion. I agree that it seems logical that they have a list of performance data. The point I was trying to make was the same one you did. There is a distinction between analyzing performance, and the Hierarchy viewed by Players. It's not a "good and bad Champs" list in my opinion. It's performance data. Assuming that is what was stated, since I wasn't there, I don't believe the implication was to say that they rate Champs the same way Players do, and that's what I was referring to. Not the same, actually. It's not a good or bad scenario. The implication with the original comment was that they know what Champs are good and bad because they keep the same scale. Slight difference because the value system shared by Players is much more extreme and critical. I would suspect that for the team, it's just data. I do not believe they have an internal rating of Champs the same way Players do. They don't see them as useful or useless, God or Garbage, or any other type of value judgment. They see them as how they perform overall, and in different areas of the game. To be fair, I'm not disputing that is what was said, just that I wasn't present, and they're not here to comment either way. I think what usually happens in these cases is a comment is made, blown out of proportion, and all kinds of speculation occurs. Historically, PR has not been a strong suit for Devs.
At the moment, we aren't even talking about what the "law" dictates. This is Apple's App Store Guidelines. So our best gauge of what might happen is to look at precedent. What happened in China? This is Blizzard drop rates for loot boxes when they did the reveal.
---
Every box contains at least one rare (blue) item.
Players get an epic (purple) item once every 5.5 boxes.
Legendary items appear once every 13.5 boxes..
I think the deadline is very telling @RedRooster, but we can disagree
But re this one example, is there even one item in the game that works like this at the moment? Maybe a PHC, nothing else at all that I can see? You pop a 4* Crystal, DR is 100 you get a 4 star. You pop a 5* crystal, the DR is 100% you get a 5 star etc
Not per character, per level of character
So, nothing will change at all
No problems disagreeing mate if we can do it with civility and we can appreciate we each have our reasons for how we see it.
Yeah, I said exactly the same thing... if you're eyes weren't worn out by the end of my post. You won't get drop rates on specific champs except maybe with the exception of 5* featured, which is only due to the mechanic of the crystal, but again no breakdown in the sub pool or basic.
The problem here is that many people are speculating as to what they want to happen or think they know.
I'm sure they have people on the phones with Apple (whom probably doesn't have a full idea of what their doing at this time either) to fully understand this new policy, but the only things that matter are how Kabam will integrate this new policy and to what extent they do this. What do they define as a loot box, and what category type do they need to disclose in their drop rates; for example the drop rates of a 2* vs a 4* in the phc, or the drop rates to receive a 2* Magik vs. a 4* Magik in the same crystal?
When it says "this featured 5* crystal has 1% chance to pull X", what will that change? Will you no longer open one? Of course you will. Just like you do now knowing the odds are super low.
I'm not trying to be snarky, I just think this will have 0 affect on the game and how we choose to open crystals. We already know the odds are ****.
When it says "this featured 5* crystal has 1% chance to pull X", what will that change? Will you no longer open one? Of course you will. Just like you do now knowing the odds are super low.
I'm not trying to be snarky, I just think this will have 0 affect on the game and how we choose to open crystals. We already know the odds are ****.
That's exactly what I felt too
think of it this way. There's all those people starting out in the game and you see these awesome premium hero crystals with a chance of a 4*! Woah right. you really want that 4* because now you can easily defeat the content in the game. Now here's what changes. you go to the screen and it tells you that you have a 1% chance of obtaining that 4*, and instantly you're like,,,hmmm, i think i'd rather spend my 100 units else where. You no longer feel that the risk is worth buying those units because you know right off the bat that your odds are super low. same goes for grand master crystals and GMFC's.
on the other side, you may or may not be more enticed to buy a featured 5* crystal knowing that the odds are 20% confirmed to get that god tier champion.
When it says "this featured 5* crystal has 1% chance to pull X", what will that change? Will you no longer open one? Of course you will. Just like you do now knowing the odds are super low.
I'm not trying to be snarky, I just think this will have 0 affect on the game and how we choose to open crystals. We already know the odds are ****.
That's exactly what I felt too
think of it this way. There's all those people starting out in the game and you see these awesome premium hero crystals with a chance of a 4*! Woah right. you really want that 4* because now you can easily defeat the content in the game. Now here's what changes. you go to the screen and it tells you that you have a 1% chance of obtaining that 4*, and instantly you're like,,,hmmm, i think i'd rather spend my 100 units else where. You no longer feel that the risk is worth buying those units because you know right off the bat that your odds are super low. same goes for grand master crystals and GMFC's.
on the other side, you may or may not be more enticed to buy a featured 5* crystal knowing that the odds are 20% confirmed to get that god tier champion.
That benefits the newer players..so that's good too
Was just about to say, over on the Sentry post, Kabam Mike said that theres no update fod this month's EQ, theyll let us know when thats coming.
GENIUS! If you dont push an update, you dont have to abide by the ToS of Apple I guess? lol
Go ahead and call me whatever lol theyve never done this before from when I started playing 2 years ago or so?
Sneaky lil Kabam.
Actually, we did this last year as well, and I think the year before as well. The December and January updates are combined so that have the content for both Months are included. this way, there is no need for any update for January.
Miike, I can't believe out of all the things to comment on, you chose something about no update for Jan?!
Please let us know what's happening with this Apple thing, if we know the odds or not, people are still gonna buy crystals, it's not such a bad thing.
The fact it's such a secret and never been released is more worrying to us players, than you would be worrying about this Apple rule.
Was just about to say, over on the Sentry post, Kabam Mike said that theres no update fod this month's EQ, theyll let us know when thats coming.
GENIUS! If you dont push an update, you dont have to abide by the ToS of Apple I guess? lol
Go ahead and call me whatever lol theyve never done this before from when I started playing 2 years ago or so?
Sneaky lil Kabam.
Actually, we did this last year as well, and I think the year before as well. The December and January updates are combined so that have the content for both Months are included. this way, there is no need for any update for January.
Miike, I can't believe out of all the things to comment on, you chose something about no update for Jan?!
Please let us know what's happening with this Apple thing, if we know the odds or not, people are still gonna buy crystals, it's not such a bad thing.
The fact it's such a secret and never been released is more worrying to us players, than you would be worrying about this Apple rule.
Um they said they would update us if/when what more do you want? We are not there yet.
Can't blame Mike for not addressing this. He is only permitted to address what his superiors allow/want him to address. They've obviously forbidden him from commenting on this issue.
I would like to know how Kabam is complying with this. That level of transparency is probably not going to happen unless Apple steps in and forces it somehow.
Was just about to say, over on the Sentry post, Kabam Mike said that theres no update fod this month's EQ, theyll let us know when thats coming.
GENIUS! If you dont push an update, you dont have to abide by the ToS of Apple I guess? lol
Go ahead and call me whatever lol theyve never done this before from when I started playing 2 years ago or so?
Sneaky lil Kabam.
Actually, we did this last year as well, and I think the year before as well. The December and January updates are combined so that have the content for both Months are included. this way, there is no need for any update for January.
Miike, I can't believe out of all the things to comment on, you chose something about no update for Jan?!
Please let us know what's happening with this Apple thing, if we know the odds or not, people are still gonna buy crystals, it's not such a bad thing.
The fact it's such a secret and never been released is more worrying to us players, than you would be worrying about this Apple rule.
Um they said they would update us if/when; what more do you want? They are not there yet.
Are you honestly worried? Me? No. Kabam? Doubt it.
Can't blame Mike for not addressing this. He is only permitted to address what his superiors allow/want him to address. They've obviously forbidden him from commenting on this issue.
I would like to know how Kabam is complying with this. That level of transparency is probably not going to happen unless Apple steps in and forces it somehow.
App games are a competitive industry. If Kabam tells everyone how they've maintained their business model with Apple's new guidelines, then their competition can easily copy their model. We can't just expect them to give away trade secrets because we're curious.
Can't blame Mike for not addressing this. He is only permitted to address what his superiors allow/want him to address. They've obviously forbidden him from commenting on this issue.
I would like to know how Kabam is complying with this. That level of transparency is probably not going to happen unless Apple steps in and forces it somehow.
App games are a competitive industry. If Kabam tells everyone how they've maintained their business model with Apple's new guidelines, then their competition can easily copy their model. We can't just expect them to give away trade secrets because we're curious.
I agree and do not expect or ant trade secrets. I just want to know the info Apple is requiring them to divulge to the player base. This could be info that was never available to the player base before.
I would think they will delay and delay making this info public for as long as possible. It will likely take complaints to the app store support to push them into action.
I would think they will delay and delay making this info public for as long as possible. It will likely take complaints to the app store support to push them into action.
Let's be honest though. I know it has been said before but even though drop rates would be nice to know even if KABAM said the 5* drop rate of a desirable champion (like say Blade) as 0.001% it wouldn't change people's spending habits. I know it wouldn't mine. If it did the lottery wouldn't exist.
I would think they will delay and delay making this info public for as long as possible. It will likely take complaints to the app store support to push them into action.
Let's be honest though. I know it has been said before but even though drop rates would be nice to know even if KABAM said the 5* drop rate of a desirable champion (like say Blade) as 0.001% it wouldn't change people's spending habits. I know it wouldn't mine. If it did the lottery wouldn't exist.
I agree, however I would still like transparency and information sharing to be the "go to" model instead of all this secrecy and fear mongering.
Comments
Oh so this is the part where you further the conspiracy with the whole "don't know for sure" argument. Carry on.
I don't believe that answers my question. If you believe that the devs do in fact keep their own internal ratings of the champions in terms of the devs own view of performance, why would you specifically say that their internal system is called Rating and claim that the PI rating we see is the devs internal system. Why would you specifically say something you're now claiming is untrue.
The first thing that came to mind was Rating. When we're talking in terms of ranking them, that would be an internal system. I don't consider analyzing performance a "value system" exactly, although I can see how that would apply after you've pointed it out. I don't see it as a value system in the same way the Players see it as a value system. I see that as internal statistics on performance.
Tell me. What purpose does that statement make? We don't know for sure. For starters, it's completely arbitrary. None of us know for sure. It's a loop. Not a successful one because no one will know for sure unless they have access to those programs, which will never happen. Those that do have access will not comment out of contractual obligations.
No, the purpose of that statement is two-fold. The first is to argue incessantly because you have an acute habit of arguing with everything that I say and taking personal shots, which is so blatantly obvious that I don't bother responding to it. For someone who claims to be privy to dealing with me, you certainly go out of your way.
The second is to simply feed more into the suspicion by using unanswerable statements. We don't know for sure. None of us will. However, discussing opinions and ideas is exactly why we are here. Thank you for pointing out the obvious.
We can definitely agree that support don't know the complexities of the game, their scripted responses are evidence of their lack of understanding of the game and the exact issues that we are having. It's like they do a keyword search and copy and paste a snippet back.
Having said that, I don't believe that the forum mods necessarily provide accurate information on all occasions. It may not be because they are trying to misdirect us, sometimes it is just based on what they believe to be the case, or they've been misinformed. There is often a misunderstanding based on what was the intent and what was actually implemented .... e.g. defender rating was intended as a tie breaker, but guess what, when it was called upon, it didn't break ties!
The context of this specific discussion was the comments made by Kabam at NYCC. Those comments were themselves made in the context of a discussion surrounding Carnage, and whether the devs were both aware of and in agreement with the general consensus of many of the players who thought his design seriously underperformed. The comments made suggested that Kabam was aware of the issues with Carnage, and moreover that Kabam themselves kept lists of high and low performance champions they used for internal guidance on which champions might need adjustments, up or down.
There have been many discussions regarding whether Kabam "sees" the champions as the players do, with some "good" and some "weak." The devs probably don't agree with all of those assessments, but they clearly do have them and admit to having them. They don't contrary to what some have said, believe they are all "equal." The devs rate champions just as we do. Not in the same way we do, in a more quantitative and complex way than we do, but they do.
That's the point players referencing NYCC are making. Past that point, Kabam explicitly refutes the notion that such rankings are used to manipulate the drop system. If you're willing to accept that statement at face value, there's no reason to arbitrarily reject statements Kabam has made about how they view the champions internally in terms of how well they perform.
Having not been there myself, I can't say much on the discussion. I agree that it seems logical that they have a list of performance data. The point I was trying to make was the same one you did. There is a distinction between analyzing performance, and the Hierarchy viewed by Players. It's not a "good and bad Champs" list in my opinion. It's performance data. Assuming that is what was stated, since I wasn't there, I don't believe the implication was to say that they rate Champs the same way Players do, and that's what I was referring to. Not the same, actually. It's not a good or bad scenario. The implication with the original comment was that they know what Champs are good and bad because they keep the same scale. Slight difference because the value system shared by Players is much more extreme and critical. I would suspect that for the team, it's just data. I do not believe they have an internal rating of Champs the same way Players do. They don't see them as useful or useless, God or Garbage, or any other type of value judgment. They see them as how they perform overall, and in different areas of the game. To be fair, I'm not disputing that is what was said, just that I wasn't present, and they're not here to comment either way. I think what usually happens in these cases is a comment is made, blown out of proportion, and all kinds of speculation occurs. Historically, PR has not been a strong suit for Devs.
No problems disagreeing mate if we can do it with civility and we can appreciate we each have our reasons for how we see it.
Yeah, I said exactly the same thing... if you're eyes weren't worn out by the end of my post.
This isn't the magic bullet that "exposes" Kabam.
I'm sure they have people on the phones with Apple (whom probably doesn't have a full idea of what their doing at this time either) to fully understand this new policy, but the only things that matter are how Kabam will integrate this new policy and to what extent they do this. What do they define as a loot box, and what category type do they need to disclose in their drop rates; for example the drop rates of a 2* vs a 4* in the phc, or the drop rates to receive a 2* Magik vs. a 4* Magik in the same crystal?
That's exactly what I felt too
think of it this way. There's all those people starting out in the game and you see these awesome premium hero crystals with a chance of a 4*! Woah right. you really want that 4* because now you can easily defeat the content in the game. Now here's what changes. you go to the screen and it tells you that you have a 1% chance of obtaining that 4*, and instantly you're like,,,hmmm, i think i'd rather spend my 100 units else where. You no longer feel that the risk is worth buying those units because you know right off the bat that your odds are super low. same goes for grand master crystals and GMFC's.
on the other side, you may or may not be more enticed to buy a featured 5* crystal knowing that the odds are 20% confirmed to get that god tier champion.
Works on so many levels, you just made my day so I thank you.
That benefits the newer players..so that's good too
Miike, I can't believe out of all the things to comment on, you chose something about no update for Jan?!
Please let us know what's happening with this Apple thing, if we know the odds or not, people are still gonna buy crystals, it's not such a bad thing.
The fact it's such a secret and never been released is more worrying to us players, than you would be worrying about this Apple rule.
Are you honestly worried? Kabam ain't.
I would like to know how Kabam is complying with this. That level of transparency is probably not going to happen unless Apple steps in and forces it somehow.
Are you honestly worried? Me? No. Kabam? Doubt it.
App games are a competitive industry. If Kabam tells everyone how they've maintained their business model with Apple's new guidelines, then their competition can easily copy their model. We can't just expect them to give away trade secrets because we're curious.
I agree and do not expect or ant trade secrets. I just want to know the info Apple is requiring them to divulge to the player base. This could be info that was never available to the player base before.
Let's be honest though. I know it has been said before but even though drop rates would be nice to know even if KABAM said the 5* drop rate of a desirable champion (like say Blade) as 0.001% it wouldn't change people's spending habits. I know it wouldn't mine. If it did the lottery wouldn't exist.
I agree, however I would still like transparency and information sharing to be the "go to" model instead of all this secrecy and fear mongering.