The end all summary of this will be that you are making Defender rating and Diversity the two tie breakers. Doesn’t matter how you allocate the points. If both teams explore 100%, no skill required. The one with the higher Defender rating (now you lowered diversity points) will win. How can you have two variables to determine winners? That’s a sloppy formula.
The point of the map changes is that we want you guys to emphasize your Defenders again. Prevent the other team from getting 100% exploration.
...and those upgraded nodes do not do that. We'll still easily 100% the map.
Removing Defender Kill Points has removed skill from Alliance War. Resulting in a boring, uncompetitive alliance quest 2.0.
The end all summary of this will be that you are making Defender rating and Diversity the two tie breakers. Doesn’t matter how you allocate the points. If both teams explore 100%, no skill required. The one with the higher Defender rating (now you lowered diversity points) will win. How can you have two variables to determine winners? That’s a sloppy formula.
The point of the map changes is that we want you guys to emphasize your Defenders again. Prevent the other team from getting 100% exploration.
why not leave diversity points as is but bring back defender kills worth a reasonable point value? have wars be decided by defender kills not by a coin flip that can be figured out at the start of the map.
also do yourself a favor and make a sticky announcement saying no RDTs will be handed out because there will be at least another 28 more threads about RDTs before the week is out.
The end all summary of this will be that you are making Defender rating and Diversity the two tie breakers. Doesn’t matter how you allocate the points. If both teams explore 100%, no skill required. The one with the higher Defender rating (now you lowered diversity points) will win. How can you have two variables to determine winners? That’s a sloppy formula.
The point of the map changes is that we want you guys to emphasize your Defenders again. Prevent the other team from getting 100% exploration.
...and those upgraded nodes do not do that. We'll still easily 100% the map.
Removing Defender Kill Points has removed skill from Alliance War. Resulting in a boring, uncompetitive alliance quest 2.0.
I can see where you're coming from.
If the idea is that you think you'll still be able to 100% clear this map as it is now, how would defender kills have made a difference?
I can take that information to the team and see what they think.
The point of the map changes is that we want you guys to emphasize your Defenders again. Prevent the other team from getting 100% exploration.
Trying to prevent other teams from getting 100%? Really? Do you know how good everyone is? Even with old system getting 100% happened quite often. Looking at these node changes it doesn't look like that is going to stop us from getting 100%. Defender kills took care of that. Let's have attacker diversity while we're at it too. Seeing how 90% of the champs in the game are useless as attackers for any part of this game.
The end all summary of this will be that you are making Defender rating and Diversity the two tie breakers. Doesn’t matter how you allocate the points. If both teams explore 100%, no skill required. The one with the higher Defender rating (now you lowered diversity points) will win. How can you have two variables to determine winners? That’s a sloppy formula.
The point of the map changes is that we want you guys to emphasize your Defenders again. Prevent the other team from getting 100% exploration.
...and those upgraded nodes do not do that. We'll still easily 100% the map.
Removing Defender Kill Points has removed skill from Alliance War. Resulting in a boring, uncompetitive alliance quest 2.0.
I can see where you're coming from.
If the idea is that you think you'll still be able to 100% clear this map as it is now, how would defender kills have made a difference?
I can take that information to the team and see what they think.
When both alliances 100% the map (which we've been doing since the new AW 2.0 has been instituted), the only tie breaker is diversity (which both alliances have fully diversified) and the defender rating.
Currently if we as a 13 mil alliance go against a 15 mil alliance, which will clearly have higher defender rating ... BUT ... let's say we do better/more strategic placement and manage to get far more defender kills, while our alliance uses their SKILL to not die as much, then the points reflecting our skill and superior defenders/defender placement can push us over the disadvantage we have against our opponents defender rating, resulting in a well fought WIN (exciting/exhilarating/FUN).
Having defender kill points opens up Alliance War to be much more strategic, exciting, and fun. It's what made Alliance War the best mode of MCoC in mine (and all of my alliance's) opinion.
I'm sure others here could explain this better (thinking of @JJW and @DNA3000 ).
The end all summary of this will be that you are making Defender rating and Diversity the two tie breakers. Doesn’t matter how you allocate the points. If both teams explore 100%, no skill required. The one with the higher Defender rating (now you lowered diversity points) will win. How can you have two variables to determine winners? That’s a sloppy formula.
The point of the map changes is that we want you guys to emphasize your Defenders again. Prevent the other team from getting 100% exploration.
The end all summary of this will be that you are making Defender rating and Diversity the two tie breakers. Doesn’t matter how you allocate the points. If both teams explore 100%, no skill required. The one with the higher Defender rating (now you lowered diversity points) will win. How can you have two variables to determine winners? That’s a sloppy formula.
The point of the map changes is that we want you guys to emphasize your Defenders again. Prevent the other team from getting 100% exploration.
...and those upgraded nodes do not do that. We'll still easily 100% the map.
Removing Defender Kill Points has removed skill from Alliance War. Resulting in a boring, uncompetitive alliance quest 2.0.
I can see where you're coming from.
If the idea is that you think you'll still be able to 100% clear this map as it is now, how would defender kills have made a difference?
I can take that information to the team and see what they think.
How about the team works all this out in some rigorous testing that doesn't effect the player base? Most of us aren't here for extended beta testing. We want a good, fun, solid game that isn't going to change incrementally every week. And since we chose a fighting game with contest in the name, we most likely want real competition. Subjecting us to repeated trial and error is a bit overboard. AW 1.0 was fine and dandy compared to this.
The end all summary of this will be that you are making Defender rating and Diversity the two tie breakers. Doesn’t matter how you allocate the points. If both teams explore 100%, no skill required. The one with the higher Defender rating (now you lowered diversity points) will win. How can you have two variables to determine winners? That’s a sloppy formula.
The point of the map changes is that we want you guys to emphasize your Defenders again. Prevent the other team from getting 100% exploration.
...and those upgraded nodes do not do that. We'll still easily 100% the map.
Removing Defender Kill Points has removed skill from Alliance War. Resulting in a boring, uncompetitive alliance quest 2.0.
I can see where you're coming from.
If the idea is that you think you'll still be able to 100% clear this map as it is now, how would defender kills have made a difference?
I can take that information to the team and see what they think.
Really?
We were regularly getting 100% in old war map which was much harder than anything new with diversity. What makes you think most alliances can't clear that garbage?
The end all summary of this will be that you are making Defender rating and Diversity the two tie breakers. Doesn’t matter how you allocate the points. If both teams explore 100%, no skill required. The one with the higher Defender rating (now you lowered diversity points) will win. How can you have two variables to determine winners? That’s a sloppy formula.
The point of the map changes is that we want you guys to emphasize your Defenders again. Prevent the other team from getting 100% exploration.
Miike, we know what the intent is. Are we playing checkers or chess?
@Kabam Miike
This will not prevent expert tier allainces from doing anything. The deciding factor will still be defender rating.
With everything tied up
Boss kills
Explore
Diversity. ...
All that leaves is rating to decide the winner.
That still doesn't show who the more skilled allaince was. Which in a war that is what we are fighting for with our rewards. Who is the better allaince. Who beat the other team the most effectively!!!!!
Kabam is clueless. Alliances will still 100% a map. Why is that hard to get?
You know what wins a war? Suicides and boosting. All teams have 150 diversity rating now.
Your logic is completely and utterly flawed. Making the map harder DOES NOTHING except make alliances spend more, but of course you know that. So please cut out the rhetoric and just say it like it is.
Now some other issues you need to address - the energy required to get through AW is utterly ridiculous. Drop the timer more and remove the energy being used when taking a portal. A war shouldn’t take so long to complete, this isn’t aq and the crappy rewards reflect that.
If the idea is that you think you'll still be able to 100% clear this map as it is now, how would defender kills have made a difference?
I can take that information to the team and see what they think.[/quote]
Defender kills would at least gauge how hard the opponent had to work to clear our defense. So even if they 100% we have some measure of how well the opponent did a.k.a. The skill measure people keep referring to.
Personally I don't care how you do it. Whether it's defender kills or some other way, but we should be rewarded for having a strong defense.
Defender rating is arbitrary at best and diversity is completely meaningless when it comes to measuring skill or the strength of a defense.
The end all summary of this will be that you are making Defender rating and Diversity the two tie breakers. Doesn’t matter how you allocate the points. If both teams explore 100%, no skill required. The one with the higher Defender rating (now you lowered diversity points) will win. How can you have two variables to determine winners? That’s a sloppy formula.
The point of the map changes is that we want you guys to emphasize your Defenders again. Prevent the other team from getting 100% exploration.
...and those upgraded nodes do not do that. We'll still easily 100% the map.
Removing Defender Kill Points has removed skill from Alliance War. Resulting in a boring, uncompetitive alliance quest 2.0.
I can see where you're coming from.
If the idea is that you think you'll still be able to 100% clear this map as it is now, how would defender kills have made a difference?
I can take that information to the team and see what they think.
with all due respect, if that wasn't considered, kabam's development team clearly has no clue wtf they're doing and it's apparent that these changes are made with very little consideration to how it will actually change the meta.
the iterative process that is supposed to be AW 2.0 is nothing more than band aids stacked on top of band aids.
The end all summary of this will be that you are making Defender rating and Diversity the two tie breakers. Doesn’t matter how you allocate the points. If both teams explore 100%, no skill required. The one with the higher Defender rating (now you lowered diversity points) will win. How can you have two variables to determine winners? That’s a sloppy formula.
The point of the map changes is that we want you guys to emphasize your Defenders again. Prevent the other team from getting 100% exploration.
@Kabam Miike as long as defender kills are not a thing people will still 100% the map unless you make the nodes harder enough. And if the nodes are significantly harder all this will do is encourage alliance jumping for lower AW ratings even more.
We've just posted another update on what you can expect in our next series of Alliance Wars when you start Matchmaking again tomorrow.
We've made a number of changes this time, including the reduction of points received for Defender Diversity to match its new role as existing per Battlegroup, and revamping a number of nodes to put more of an emphasis on the importance of choosing the right Defender for the right job.
Congratulation to all higher alliance for wining aw.
PI wins and you guys have high pi rating.
forget about doing 100 percent map even if avearge alliance get tie up with higher alliance with 50 percent then also they win because of high pi.
this changes gives Big disadvantage to average alliance.
Thank for the awfull changes....
With this change average alliance member gonna lose their interest....
you guys need to over think the change.
We've just posted another update on what you can expect in our next series of Alliance Wars when you start Matchmaking again tomorrow.
We've made a number of changes this time, including the reduction of points received for Defender Diversity to match its new role as existing per Battlegroup, and revamping a number of nodes to put more of an emphasis on the importance of choosing the right Defender for the right job.
The end all summary of this will be that you are making Defender rating and Diversity the two tie breakers. Doesn’t matter how you allocate the points. If both teams explore 100%, no skill required. The one with the higher Defender rating (now you lowered diversity points) will win. How can you have two variables to determine winners? That’s a sloppy formula.
The point of the map changes is that we want you guys to emphasize your Defenders again. Prevent the other team from getting 100% exploration.
That isn't a plausible assumption or goal. With no defender kills we will look to 100% every map every time. Again, with no defender kills diversity could be a million per champ and the results would be the same. It's simple math.
The end all summary of this will be that you are making Defender rating and Diversity the two tie breakers. Doesn’t matter how you allocate the points. If both teams explore 100%, no skill required. The one with the higher Defender rating (now you lowered diversity points) will win. How can you have two variables to determine winners? That’s a sloppy formula.
The point of the map changes is that we want you guys to emphasize your Defenders again. Prevent the other team from getting 100% exploration.
...and those upgraded nodes do not do that. We'll still easily 100% the map.
Removing Defender Kill Points has removed skill from Alliance War. Resulting in a boring, uncompetitive alliance quest 2.0.
I can see where you're coming from.
If the idea is that you think you'll still be able to 100% clear this map as it is now, how would defender kills have made a difference?
I can take that information to the team and see what they think.
Miike I can't believe that this is a genuine question. We've been talking about the importance of defender kills for over a month now.
Without defender kills, defender rating is still going to be the deciding factor.
Shared this theory in another Thread. Rather than retype it, I'm just going to post a screenshot.
So what youre saying is... the strong get stronger and the weaker allis will never have a chance of catching up.
Sounds very fun! Great
/s
No. What I'm saying is Defender Rating adds a mechanic that reflects Ranking Champs. The point of the game is to advance our Rosters by Ranking. One of the things it will do is balance the overpowered Matches. The other aspect is people will advance in part by advancing their Accounts, and in turn, Allies.
Without defender kills, defender rating is still going to be the deciding factor.
Shared this theory in another Thread. Rather than retype it, I'm just going to post a screenshot.
So what youre saying is... the strong get stronger and the weaker allis will never have a chance of catching up.
Sounds very fun! Great
/s
I think what he’s saying is overtime defender ratings will even out match wise... but that still doesn’t eliminate the issue of skill/strategy having 0 effect in war...
Comments
If it is nothing that is ok, but the issue has been ignored since the @Kabam Miike saying he was bringing it the game team.
...and those upgraded nodes do not do that. We'll still easily 100% the map.
Removing Defender Kill Points has removed skill from Alliance War. Resulting in a boring, uncompetitive alliance quest 2.0.
why not leave diversity points as is but bring back defender kills worth a reasonable point value? have wars be decided by defender kills not by a coin flip that can be figured out at the start of the map.
also do yourself a favor and make a sticky announcement saying no RDTs will be handed out because there will be at least another 28 more threads about RDTs before the week is out.
I can see where you're coming from.
If the idea is that you think you'll still be able to 100% clear this map as it is now, how would defender kills have made a difference?
I can take that information to the team and see what they think.
This makes it worse. Bring back defender kills.
Trying to prevent other teams from getting 100%? Really? Do you know how good everyone is? Even with old system getting 100% happened quite often. Looking at these node changes it doesn't look like that is going to stop us from getting 100%. Defender kills took care of that. Let's have attacker diversity while we're at it too. Seeing how 90% of the champs in the game are useless as attackers for any part of this game.
When both alliances 100% the map (which we've been doing since the new AW 2.0 has been instituted), the only tie breaker is diversity (which both alliances have fully diversified) and the defender rating.
Currently if we as a 13 mil alliance go against a 15 mil alliance, which will clearly have higher defender rating ... BUT ... let's say we do better/more strategic placement and manage to get far more defender kills, while our alliance uses their SKILL to not die as much, then the points reflecting our skill and superior defenders/defender placement can push us over the disadvantage we have against our opponents defender rating, resulting in a well fought WIN (exciting/exhilarating/FUN).
Having defender kill points opens up Alliance War to be much more strategic, exciting, and fun. It's what made Alliance War the best mode of MCoC in mine (and all of my alliance's) opinion.
I'm sure others here could explain this better (thinking of @JJW and @DNA3000 ).
Still doesn't solve the problem of all of us ranking our spidys, nc, juggs, mordos, hyperions, magiks, dormammus, etc...
Any one of us that has those champs ranked them up without question.
How about the team works all this out in some rigorous testing that doesn't effect the player base? Most of us aren't here for extended beta testing. We want a good, fun, solid game that isn't going to change incrementally every week. And since we chose a fighting game with contest in the name, we most likely want real competition. Subjecting us to repeated trial and error is a bit overboard. AW 1.0 was fine and dandy compared to this.
Really?
We were regularly getting 100% in old war map which was much harder than anything new with diversity. What makes you think most alliances can't clear that garbage?
Miike, we know what the intent is. Are we playing checkers or chess?
This will not prevent expert tier allainces from doing anything. The deciding factor will still be defender rating.
With everything tied up
Boss kills
Explore
Diversity. ...
All that leaves is rating to decide the winner.
That still doesn't show who the more skilled allaince was. Which in a war that is what we are fighting for with our rewards. Who is the better allaince. Who beat the other team the most effectively!!!!!
COME ON!!!!
You know what wins a war? Suicides and boosting. All teams have 150 diversity rating now.
Your logic is completely and utterly flawed. Making the map harder DOES NOTHING except make alliances spend more, but of course you know that. So please cut out the rhetoric and just say it like it is.
Now some other issues you need to address - the energy required to get through AW is utterly ridiculous. Drop the timer more and remove the energy being used when taking a portal. A war shouldn’t take so long to complete, this isn’t aq and the crappy rewards reflect that.
I can see where you're coming from.
If the idea is that you think you'll still be able to 100% clear this map as it is now, how would defender kills have made a difference?
I can take that information to the team and see what they think.[/quote]
Defender kills would at least gauge how hard the opponent had to work to clear our defense. So even if they 100% we have some measure of how well the opponent did a.k.a. The skill measure people keep referring to.
Personally I don't care how you do it. Whether it's defender kills or some other way, but we should be rewarded for having a strong defense.
Defender rating is arbitrary at best and diversity is completely meaningless when it comes to measuring skill or the strength of a defense.
with all due respect, if that wasn't considered, kabam's development team clearly has no clue wtf they're doing and it's apparent that these changes are made with very little consideration to how it will actually change the meta.
the iterative process that is supposed to be AW 2.0 is nothing more than band aids stacked on top of band aids.
@Kabam Miike as long as defender kills are not a thing people will still 100% the map unless you make the nodes harder enough. And if the nodes are significantly harder all this will do is encourage alliance jumping for lower AW ratings even more.
It doesn't matter what the points are for diversity as long as there are no defender kills. Did it seriously take two weeks to come up with this??
PI wins and you guys have high pi rating.
forget about doing 100 percent map even if avearge alliance get tie up with higher alliance with 50 percent then also they win because of high pi.
this changes gives Big disadvantage to average alliance.
Thank for the awfull changes....
With this change average alliance member gonna lose their interest....
you guys need to over think the change.
it entirely feels like the next iteration was decided this morning in their tuesday morning meetings in a battle of rock paper scissors.
That isn't a plausible assumption or goal. With no defender kills we will look to 100% every map every time. Again, with no defender kills diversity could be a million per champ and the results would be the same. It's simple math.
Miike I can't believe that this is a genuine question. We've been talking about the importance of defender kills for over a month now.
Shared this theory in another Thread. Rather than retype it, I'm just going to post a screenshot.
It's not a rating contest (beauty pageant). It's a war!
So what youre saying is... the strong get stronger and the weaker allis will never have a chance of catching up.
Sounds very fun! Great
/s
No. What I'm saying is Defender Rating adds a mechanic that reflects Ranking Champs. The point of the game is to advance our Rosters by Ranking. One of the things it will do is balance the overpowered Matches. The other aspect is people will advance in part by advancing their Accounts, and in turn, Allies.