Summoners, due to a technical issue, this week's series of Alliance Quests will be cancelled at 4pm PT. There will not be any Rewards for this series. The next series of Alliance Quests will start on April 18 at 12pm PT. We will be assessing the impact on Alliances and compensating accordingly, as well as returning Alliance Tickets.

General Game Feedback [Merged Threads]

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Comments

  • WorknprogressWorknprogress Posts: 5,873 ★★★★★

    Unio77 said:



    I just think kabam havent been communicating as much with us lately becuase they are already teing to relieve the issues that we are bringing to them and these issues will take time to fix

    Ya'll just need to be patient. Theres always light at the end of the tunnel

    I disagree. Perception is reality and Public Relations firms exist for a reason.

    Kabam may be actively working behind the scenes to try and improve their game, but if they're not engaging with the community, the community is left to wonder what's going on. Over the years, Kabam has given the community too many reasons to not take them at their word:

    -All champions have the same speed and cadence to all their moves
    -Sentinel's L1 has always been incredibly hard to punish
    -Archangel's passive stun is meant to bypass limber and stun immunity

    The list goes on. Either by making erroneous statements or walking back previously made statements, Kabam has made the community skeptical because they have cultivated an image of distrust.

    When a person or a company wants to change their image, they can hire a PR firm/manager to help. The PR firm's job is to make sure community engagement is on-point and on-message so the person/company can slowly adjust their image or public perception.

    Kabam could do this, though they don't have to hire a PR firm. They could simply commit a single person to come to this thread daily. The job would not be to give status updates, but rather to make a post that crystallizes all the concerns brought up that day. Make a list of the concerns and then forward that to the game team. For review. This could happen 5 days per week until the new roadmap is released.

    If a representative from Kabam commented on this thread regularly to engage with the players, could you imagine how much tension that would relieve? One of the main concerns I'm hearing is transparency and the lack thereof from the game team. The roadmap helps, but it pales in comparison to regular community engagement.
    While in general I agree with the sentiment of this, I don't really blame them for being hesitant to say much of anything until there's something concrete and decided on to say. Anytime they say anything and then change something you just get a bunch of "but but but you said..." rabble afterward.
  • WorknprogressWorknprogress Posts: 5,873 ★★★★★
    If they come out and say they're looking at x but don't actually make a major or any change to x, I can only imagine the "constructive feedback" they'd get here
  • BodhizenBodhizen Posts: 302 ★★
    edited May 2020

    Unio77 said:



    I just think kabam havent been communicating as much with us lately becuase they are already teing to relieve the issues that we are bringing to them and these issues will take time to fix

    Ya'll just need to be patient. Theres always light at the end of the tunnel

    I disagree. Perception is reality and Public Relations firms exist for a reason.

    Kabam may be actively working behind the scenes to try and improve their game, but if they're not engaging with the community, the community is left to wonder what's going on. Over the years, Kabam has given the community too many reasons to not take them at their word:

    -All champions have the same speed and cadence to all their moves
    -Sentinel's L1 has always been incredibly hard to punish
    -Archangel's passive stun is meant to bypass limber and stun immunity

    The list goes on. Either by making erroneous statements or walking back previously made statements, Kabam has made the community skeptical because they have cultivated an image of distrust.

    When a person or a company wants to change their image, they can hire a PR firm/manager to help. The PR firm's job is to make sure community engagement is on-point and on-message so the person/company can slowly adjust their image or public perception.

    Kabam could do this, though they don't have to hire a PR firm. They could simply commit a single person to come to this thread daily. The job would not be to give status updates, but rather to make a post that crystallizes all the concerns brought up that day. Make a list of the concerns and then forward that to the game team. For review. This could happen 5 days per week until the new roadmap is released.

    If a representative from Kabam commented on this thread regularly to engage with the players, could you imagine how much tension that would relieve? One of the main concerns I'm hearing is transparency and the lack thereof from the game team. The roadmap helps, but it pales in comparison to regular community engagement.
    While in general I agree with the sentiment of this, I don't really blame them for being hesitant to say much of anything until there's something concrete and decided on to say. Anytime they say anything and then change something you just get a bunch of "but but but you said..." rabble afterward.
    There's a difference between saying, "We can't really say a whole bunch because we're forum moderators and we are not given all of the information to give you a satisfactory response, but we're here, we're passing along your comments, questions, and concerns, and when we know something, we'll get back to you." and not saying anything at all. People are asking for acknowledgement that their feedback is being received rather than being dumped into a mega-thread that can be ignored (and no further forum cleanup needs to occur), and that's eminently reasonable. No one wants to be shouting into the void, and some of these critiques have been posted here on these forums for years without any response whatsoever. Sure, some get responses, but the community has to go searching for them if you weren't around when the response was given.

    There could be a FAQ thread so that moderators don't have to respond to such suggestions over and over again... But there isn't. "Here's why we've decided not to do 30-minute AQ/AW timers at this time. If there's any reason to make a change to this, we'll notify the community as to why that decision has changed. Please refer back to this response any time people start asking for 30-minute AQ/AW timers in the future." That would be reasonable communication. Shoot... Moderators are constantly closing threads and directing forum traffic to their preferred "This thread is the dumping ground for things we want to ignore because we're never going to respond to it." like the Character Wishlist threads. Good public relations on forums of this size aren't difficult, but the Kabam moderators are still silent on the matter, which is not good PR (and that's largely what they're here for, otherwise they'd allow the kind of threadcrapping and trolling that goes on in other places to happen here).

    As for the boycott, people can do as they please. If I don't want to spend money on this game, I won't. If I want to spend money on it, I will. I don't think anyone's disputing that. What I see being disputed is the notion that it's appropriate or inappropriate to organize the community to act in a consistent fashion. It's the same thing as unionizing (though in our case, it would be a very loose union). It's very telling who's against organization, and history has proven time and time again where power lies in the interactions between individual customer and multi-million dollar businesses, versus the leverage that can be had between collectives of consumers and multi-million dollar businesses.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 26,869 ★★★★★

    IKON said:

    Unio77 said:

    To be honest I think a boycott is a very immature way of communication. Yes kabam have communicated with us and ppl want them to talk to us about future plans and all that but if they tell us what their planning and their progress every two days it will take that a certain thing away from it. (I dont really know how to explain it so plz dont ask for ine)

    I just think kabam havent been communicating as much with us lately becuase they are already teing to relieve the issues that we are bringing to them and these issues will take time to fix

    Ya'll just need to be patient. Theres always light at the end of the tunnel

    Immature?
    How long has the community asked for 30 min timers in AQ?
    How long has the community said remove act 6 gates?
    How long has the community asked to 6 star arena or 5 star basic arena?

    Now if there was no history of being ignored and these issues got addressed as they came up we wouldn't be here but to say its immature. I just believe that is a troll comment.
    How long has the community asked for free 6* crystals?
    How long has the community said we all should get the new champions?

    Just because the community wants something doesn't mean:

    1) it's healthy for the long term game
    2) it aligns with a companys goals

    They literally can't just go ahead with what the community wants in every situation, or they would have ended the game a long time ago.
    Okay so you conveniently brought up everything the community has asked for that is unreasonable. Okay if I asked for a free 6 star Dr. Doom that is not a good example. People give reasonable feedback all the time. Act 6 gates being removed was a reasonable ask, also tuning down the Champion 6.2.6 boss is reasonable. They're going to have to do it now anyways so if they listened back when they were told the boycott wouldn't be going on right now. They ignored suggestions that were healthy long term for the game as well so you can't just ignore that.
    What?
  • BodhizenBodhizen Posts: 302 ★★

    IKON said:

    Unio77 said:

    To be honest I think a boycott is a very immature way of communication. Yes kabam have communicated with us and ppl want them to talk to us about future plans and all that but if they tell us what their planning and their progress every two days it will take that a certain thing away from it. (I dont really know how to explain it so plz dont ask for ine)

    I just think kabam havent been communicating as much with us lately becuase they are already teing to relieve the issues that we are bringing to them and these issues will take time to fix

    Ya'll just need to be patient. Theres always light at the end of the tunnel

    Immature?
    How long has the community asked for 30 min timers in AQ?
    How long has the community said remove act 6 gates?
    How long has the community asked to 6 star arena or 5 star basic arena?

    Now if there was no history of being ignored and these issues got addressed as they came up we wouldn't be here but to say its immature. I just believe that is a troll comment.
    How long has the community asked for free 6* crystals?
    How long has the community said we all should get the new champions?

    Just because the community wants something doesn't mean:

    1) it's healthy for the long term game
    2) it aligns with a companys goals

    They literally can't just go ahead with what the community wants in every situation, or they would have ended the game a long time ago.
    More often than not the majority here tend to be wrong actually
    That has nothing to do with the fact that reasonable, valuable feedback is given here, and is consistently ignored. Shoot, I've seen more engagement from @MarvelChampions on Twitter, which regularly responds with, "Thank you for your feedback. We're passing it along to our development team."
  • WorknprogressWorknprogress Posts: 5,873 ★★★★★
    Bodhizen said:

    IKON said:

    Unio77 said:

    To be honest I think a boycott is a very immature way of communication. Yes kabam have communicated with us and ppl want them to talk to us about future plans and all that but if they tell us what their planning and their progress every two days it will take that a certain thing away from it. (I dont really know how to explain it so plz dont ask for ine)

    I just think kabam havent been communicating as much with us lately becuase they are already teing to relieve the issues that we are bringing to them and these issues will take time to fix

    Ya'll just need to be patient. Theres always light at the end of the tunnel

    Immature?
    How long has the community asked for 30 min timers in AQ?
    How long has the community said remove act 6 gates?
    How long has the community asked to 6 star arena or 5 star basic arena?

    Now if there was no history of being ignored and these issues got addressed as they came up we wouldn't be here but to say its immature. I just believe that is a troll comment.
    How long has the community asked for free 6* crystals?
    How long has the community said we all should get the new champions?

    Just because the community wants something doesn't mean:

    1) it's healthy for the long term game
    2) it aligns with a companys goals

    They literally can't just go ahead with what the community wants in every situation, or they would have ended the game a long time ago.
    More often than not the majority here tend to be wrong actually
    That has nothing to do with the fact that reasonable, valuable feedback is given here, and is consistently ignored. Shoot, I've seen more engagement from @MarvelChampions on Twitter, which regularly responds with, "Thank you for your feedback. We're passing it along to our development team."
    Which means effectively nothing. They've said already they're going to address this feedback early June, that's your response to this. It's not early June yet.
  • BodhizenBodhizen Posts: 302 ★★

    Bodhizen said:

    IKON said:

    Unio77 said:

    To be honest I think a boycott is a very immature way of communication. Yes kabam have communicated with us and ppl want them to talk to us about future plans and all that but if they tell us what their planning and their progress every two days it will take that a certain thing away from it. (I dont really know how to explain it so plz dont ask for ine)

    I just think kabam havent been communicating as much with us lately becuase they are already teing to relieve the issues that we are bringing to them and these issues will take time to fix

    Ya'll just need to be patient. Theres always light at the end of the tunnel

    Immature?
    How long has the community asked for 30 min timers in AQ?
    How long has the community said remove act 6 gates?
    How long has the community asked to 6 star arena or 5 star basic arena?

    Now if there was no history of being ignored and these issues got addressed as they came up we wouldn't be here but to say its immature. I just believe that is a troll comment.
    How long has the community asked for free 6* crystals?
    How long has the community said we all should get the new champions?

    Just because the community wants something doesn't mean:

    1) it's healthy for the long term game
    2) it aligns with a companys goals

    They literally can't just go ahead with what the community wants in every situation, or they would have ended the game a long time ago.
    More often than not the majority here tend to be wrong actually
    That has nothing to do with the fact that reasonable, valuable feedback is given here, and is consistently ignored. Shoot, I've seen more engagement from @MarvelChampions on Twitter, which regularly responds with, "Thank you for your feedback. We're passing it along to our development team."
    Which means effectively nothing. They've said already they're going to address this feedback early June, that's your response to this. It's not early June yet.
    They say that they're going to address feedback all the time, yet rarely do, but you're still missing the point. They said that they were going to address certain feedback in early June and then created this mega-thread for others to offer more feedback that isn't receiving any sort of response or acknowledgement. It gives the appearance that this thread is the "general feedback dumping ground so that we don't have to keep moving or deleting threads". I've been a forum moderator for forums of this size before. It's a pretty common practice. Sure, they could say that they're passing feedback along to the developers and then not do anything about it, but at least it would be acknowledgement that feedback was given. Thankfully, that's not what they did in the Act 7 Beta forum. Miike gave his typical responses (to mixed reception), but we got some really respectful, detailed, and encouraging information from Welker.
  • TheTalentsTheTalents Posts: 1,733 ★★★★★
    Haji_Saab said:

    Community is not a monolith. I wish people could stop using that word just to add weight to their argument. It should just be "I want this ..." or "my alliance would like that...".

    You are not the appointed representative of millions of players.

    I never said I was. When I said Community I used examples to actual threads that have hundreds or posts if not over a thousand. So yes, that is a good enough sample size and you have no authority of my use of the word "community" either it works both ways.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 26,869 ★★★★★
    Bodhizen said:

    Bodhizen said:

    IKON said:

    Unio77 said:

    To be honest I think a boycott is a very immature way of communication. Yes kabam have communicated with us and ppl want them to talk to us about future plans and all that but if they tell us what their planning and their progress every two days it will take that a certain thing away from it. (I dont really know how to explain it so plz dont ask for ine)

    I just think kabam havent been communicating as much with us lately becuase they are already teing to relieve the issues that we are bringing to them and these issues will take time to fix

    Ya'll just need to be patient. Theres always light at the end of the tunnel

    Immature?
    How long has the community asked for 30 min timers in AQ?
    How long has the community said remove act 6 gates?
    How long has the community asked to 6 star arena or 5 star basic arena?

    Now if there was no history of being ignored and these issues got addressed as they came up we wouldn't be here but to say its immature. I just believe that is a troll comment.
    How long has the community asked for free 6* crystals?
    How long has the community said we all should get the new champions?

    Just because the community wants something doesn't mean:

    1) it's healthy for the long term game
    2) it aligns with a companys goals

    They literally can't just go ahead with what the community wants in every situation, or they would have ended the game a long time ago.
    More often than not the majority here tend to be wrong actually
    That has nothing to do with the fact that reasonable, valuable feedback is given here, and is consistently ignored. Shoot, I've seen more engagement from @MarvelChampions on Twitter, which regularly responds with, "Thank you for your feedback. We're passing it along to our development team."
    Which means effectively nothing. They've said already they're going to address this feedback early June, that's your response to this. It's not early June yet.
    They say that they're going to address feedback all the time, yet rarely do, but you're still missing the point. They said that they were going to address certain feedback in early June and then created this mega-thread for others to offer more feedback that isn't receiving any sort of response or acknowledgement. It gives the appearance that this thread is the "general feedback dumping ground so that we don't have to keep moving or deleting threads". I've been a forum moderator for forums of this size before. It's a pretty common practice. Sure, they could say that they're passing feedback along to the developers and then not do anything about it, but at least it would be acknowledgement that feedback was given. Thankfully, that's not what they did in the Act 7 Beta forum. Miike gave his typical responses (to mixed reception), but we got some really respectful, detailed, and encouraging information from Welker.
    That's a very jaded way to put it, but in the words of my father, "When I say later, that means later.".
  • TheTalentsTheTalents Posts: 1,733 ★★★★★
    Haji_Saab said:

    Haji_Saab said:

    Community is not a monolith. I wish people could stop using that word just to add weight to their argument. It should just be "I want this ..." or "my alliance would like that...".

    You are not the appointed representative of millions of players.

    I never said I was. When I said Community I used examples to actual threads that have hundreds or posts if not over a thousand. So yes, that is a good enough sample size and you have no authority of my use of the word "community" either it works both ways.
    I didn't mention you. It was a general comment.

    Regarding your second remark, you do not represent me and I am part of the community hence you are not the community representative. So what I said is factually and unarguably correct.
    You want to go round and round. I will still use the word community when I feel like it.

    There you go. All of the boycott talk will be deleted anyway so its a waste of time. I would like to go back to the key issued I raised that Kabam could communicate to put people at ease. If they want to wait till mid June and beyond so be it.
  • Unio77Unio77 Posts: 1,907 ★★★★★
    All in all kabam aren't stupid. They know if they dont implement what the player base is crying for they will lose players over a period of time. So kabam is basically forced to implement most of the things we want.

    Some of the feedback given on this thread will be implemented in the game, why, becuase kabam know it will make us happy and quite for some time if they do. It's a no brainer imo

    I'm not sure if I said that correctly but you get the point

    Let's give it another few days or a week and see the feedback we get from kabam, *let's just be patient*
  • Indrick781Indrick781 Posts: 388 ★★★
    DNA3000 said:

    DNA3000 said:

    ESF said:

    Seriously, though. Honest question: Why does it cost us anything to switch Masteries?

    I mean, I guess Kabam could say "why should it be free" and that is an answer, but we already know they can turn the respec costs off whenever they want and that players have to pay to unlock them with units they either grinded for or purchased in the first place.

    At some point, maybe it would be OK to admit that cow has been milked dry and unlock respec costs permanently for those who have done what it takes to get them

    This is just my opinion, based on my experience with other games. Most games go through an evolution on this. To start, the idea is that masteries, or other build-like structures in the game, are something that players should think about as they unlock and enable. There must be some opportunity cost associated with picking this mastery over that mastery. If you take this one, you can't take that one. Because if you can have everything, then the choices are meaningless. So the choices are irreversible.

    As the game matures, you enter a period where a sizeable percentage of your more veteran players have already done everything they can do with these builds, and are stuck with them forever. The irreversibility start looking less like a way to make the choices interesting and more like a shackle where players cannot explore other possibilities anymore. So the game starts to allow for respecification - you can change your build, but it costs something. This way you can't just turn on whatever you want whenever you want in an unlimited fashion, because again, that would make choices meaningless. You're almost in the situation where you have everything on all the time, just situationally. But you can now explore what the game looks like with a different build.

    At some point, the meta gaming situation often changes again, to where the idea of build switching becomes less the exception and more the norm in dealing with content. As content continues to get more complex, the developers of the content increasingly leverage differences in builds to offer increasingly high advantages and disadvantages to certain build options. And with that comes the belief that players should have the ability to change builds to counter content challenges. And that's usually when build-switching starts to become the norm, and most of the friction associated with it goes away, at least to a point. This is where you get switchable setups, and this is often where you get low or zero cost switching.

    So my answer to the question of why mastery switches have costs is I believe the Kabam developers currently see masteries as something players should be allowed to explore, but not allowed to leverage situationally. You're supposed to be able to see what it is like to play for a week or a month with one set up, and then another week or month with another set up, so the costs need to be high enough to make it difficult to switch constantly, but low enough to be reasonable if done infrequently. Costs will disappear when the devs decide that masteries are supposed to be a tool players can use per map, or even per fight if they want to, and they no longer care about the opportunity costs of having different masteries as much.
    All of this is generally true in other games, but by now other games would usually include a second "page" for a second set of masteries. A very simple solution to the mastery issue is after using cores, there's no cost to respec. You get a second page that costs a nominal cost to swap to, say 25 units, at level 60. At level 60, you unlock the ability to purchase additional pages on a sliding scale. Page 3 is say $5, page 4 is $10, page 5 is $15. You still keep the nominal fee for switching but the time to switch is reduced, Kabam still makes money off the pages, and players can switch up their masteries on the fly for different game modes.
    If I understand what you're saying, they way I've seen it most often is not to charge for swapping, but to charge for the additional builds. So you do XYZ to unlock build #2, but then you have to buy build #2 when it is unlocked. Once you've bought it, you can populate it with a different build and switch between B1 and B2 (which for MCOC would be a complete mastery setup). If you're concerned about over-switching, you use a cooldown. So rather than pay to switch, once you switch build you can't switch again for some period of time, a day, and hour, something.
    Basically yep. Main reason I said a nominal cost vs a cooldown is I could easily see Kabam making the cooldown be some absurdly high length. I'd rather just pay the 25 units to switch.
  • cookiedealercookiedealer Posts: 177
    edited May 2020
    I was thinking if we want more lines of direct communication, expecting Kabam to read/sift through thousands of forum posts a day isn't feasible. Many people don't have game design experience, so realize not all ideas/solutions are equal. Some will straight up ruin the game (not the best example, but say if everyone could easily get specific top 6* champs quickly, it'll just cause 6*r4, r5, or even 7*s to possibly become a thing much more quickly).

    The different moderators over time, do individually see different recommendations, ideas, and complaints, but for them to pool it together into something concrete daily hasn't been their job or should it be (6 ish mods, vs. 100k+ players).

    Also, good/interesting ideas, feedback, and suggestions are lost midst the complaints, demands, noise (yes, some people sometimes just make noise) ,and unclear path to move forward with.

    TLDR: work towards having a better means to communicate specific pain points, discuss, and eventually hear what is Kabam's perspective/position on it.

    Eventually, we should have an improved way for us to communicate.

    For example, vote which pain points we as a community want to address, and after we vote some up: have a place for each pain point, for only discussion of possible solutions arguing for or against, as opposed to people complaining, not providing clear ideas' pros and cons, or derailing the conversation.
  • DrZolaDrZola Posts: 4,503 ★★★★★
    edited May 2020

    If they come out and say they're looking at x but don't actually make a major or any change to x, I can only imagine the "constructive feedback" they'd get here

    Depends on the person they send out. Ad0ra seemed to handle a lot of the back and forth well for a long time.

    Dr. Zola
  • StevieManWonderStevieManWonder Posts: 3,457 ★★★★★
    Gregdagr8 said:



    Hope this works, never tried to attach a pic to a post. But this is why people hate act 6. This is 6.2.6 Do you Bleed Killmonger, also has the node where he shrugs off 80% of your bleeds AND heals 5% for every shrug off. I have a max sig rank 5 Blade, with 5 out of 5 deep wounds. After I died, Killmonger was STILL at 27%. Horrible node design. And that's just the second fight lol. The casual player has zero interest in playing content like this. Once I did that fight, quit out, and never been back into that Act. These are the fights that need to be addressed.

    It’s easier to ramp up Ægon and hit into their blocks than it is to bleed that path. Just him to a 500 hit combo before you get to Killmonger so you don’t trigger Reverberation.
  • Mirage_TurtleMirage_Turtle Posts: 1,868 ★★★★
    Gregdagr8 said:



    Hope this works, never tried to attach a pic to a post. But this is why people hate act 6. This is 6.2.6 Do you Bleed Killmonger, also has the node where he shrugs off 80% of your bleeds AND heals 5% for every shrug off. I have a max sig rank 5 Blade, with 5 out of 5 deep wounds. After I died, Killmonger was STILL at 27%. Horrible node design. And that's just the second fight lol. The casual player has zero interest in playing content like this. Once I did that fight, quit out, and never been back into that Act. These are the fights that need to be addressed.

    That one is rough.

    I used Sabretooth for that line, bringing in Omega Red and KM for synergy. For this particular fight, Omega's synergy let bleed trigger on regular hits and KM's synergy prevented the enemy from ever healing. Plus, every ten hits I scored inflicted an armor break, so no reverberation. Sabretooth solo'd that whole line.
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