**Attention Summoners**
Due to issues surrounding Defensive Tactics, points from the current matchup in Alliance Wars will be removed after the season.
War Rating will remain untouched.
We are reducing the minimum matchup cutoff from 5 to 4 for this season.
We will continue to monitor the impact of this decision.

Removal of Revive Farming and the Apothecary Discussion

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Comments

  • BigPoppaCBONEBigPoppaCBONE Posts: 1,953 ★★★★★
    DNA3000 said:

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    I know people who will be negatively affected by the change. *I* will be negatively affected by the change. But I can't honestly say it was unexpected or that it isn't an obviously predictable change. We can try to soften the blow to some extent with inventory changes or availability changes up to a point, but thinking this is some necessary thing players should be able to count on indefinitely is a complete break from reality, as is trying to ascribe conspiratorial motives to the change in an effort to disparage it. If you don't like it, it should be enough that you say you don't like it. The moment someone has to invent a fictional narrative to support their criticism, that criticism ceases to be valid.

    They aren't helping themselves with their messaging. They're Sideshow Bob stepping on every rake they can find.

    Kabam is the dude that keeps adding the cringe unnecessary bit at the end that makes you go, "Dude! Why?!"

    Kabam's communications are the guy saying, "Honey, I like the other dress better than this one... because this one doesn't hide the fat. Really, I wanted to say something earlier but I decided to spare your feelings. You're welcome."

    So terrible. Why didn't they lead with increasing the health item inventory and changing the potions to percentages? Then slip in the medicine with "we'll be tweaking the spread of revives in the beginner content to account for the potion enhancement."
  • Suros_moonSuros_moon Posts: 239 ★★★
    DNA3000 said:

    thepiggy said:



    This reads like a movie company from the mid 2000's claiming that internet pirates are costing them 10 trillion dollars a day for downloading their crummy straight-to-DVD movie.

    Farmed revives are not lost revenue, they are the cost of doing business and letting players clear absurd content so that they can save their resources on actual deals..

    Kabam did not claim that this is lost revenue. Players are claiming that. Kabam actually explicitly stated in that announcement that the problem is that those farmed resources trivialize intentionally difficult content. Because of this, the economic consequence would have to be to reduce the rewards from such content. Nowhere does Kabam mention revenue as an issue, nor imply that revenue was an issue. It isn't about the cost of those revives at all. It is about what they do to content when they can be used in an essentially unlimited manner.

    Hercules is the most obvious example, but if you have unlimited resources you can face roll your way though almost any content with any champ. It would just take more with a different champ, but that doesn't matter if you literally have an unlimited supply.

    If literally everyone who was farming revives started spending cash to buy them and do exactly the same thing, that would still be a problem with content design. That's not going to happen, because less than 5% of mobile game players spend money on microtransactions. Some small number will spend, and the fact that some small number of players spend to get more stuff than everyone else is factored into the design of the game, as this is a necessary prerequisite for having a game at all.
    Are you implying that this isn’t lost revenue?

    Let’s follow that claim down the track: if the ONLY problem is the stated problem of “spamming revives”, then once again, why not just limit the number of items you can use in a quest? The proposed solution is down right convoluted in comparison.

    Your bit about 5% spending is also off the target. At any given time its fairly safe to assume that only 10% of the player base or so will ever even do the carinas challenges in the first place or ever be caught up content wise. These are the typically the only players who would even need such large quantities of revives in the first place which is where the entire problem lies. You’re obfuscating with a poorly representative statistic.

    The only conclusion that’s congruent with the solution they proposed is that their revenue was being harmed
  • StellarStellar Posts: 1,057 ★★★★

    This is a horrible decision. What about the players who farmed revives to clear Carina Challenges, and explore content like EoP, Gauntlet, etc. but now the rest of us who haven’t explored those yet don’t get the same revive resources they had available to them when they did it. How is that fair?

    I’ve been upset with Kabam plenty over the years, but if they go through with this, it is the final nail in the coffin that will lead me to quit. I’ve invested thousands into my account over the year, but no more if they take away our ability to get revives. It’s expensive enough already using heal potions on 6* R4 champs, I’m not paying 40 units per revive on top of that.

    It is now time to farm tons of revives and do the gauntlet, the EoP and all the Carina Challenges you can before april !
  • Feeney234Feeney234 Posts: 1,042 ★★★★
    Silly summoner, you gotta BUY those revives!
  • StellarStellar Posts: 1,057 ★★★★
    Stellar said:

    So what your team "deemed a reasonable amount of consumable" per day is
    - 1 level 1 revive, 1 level 1 potion and 1 level 4 potion....

    wow!! i am so excited by the perspective of being able to heal my apocalypse of 375 HP per day out of its 56 196 HP (nearly 150 potions needed to get back to full health...)
    I don't have the words to describe how i feel right now considering that information.

    Just a question, why don't you replace revives and healing potions by their counterpart in %

    Level 1 revive => revive a champion back to 10% of life
    Level 2 revive => revive a champion back to 20% of life
    Level 3 revive => revive a champion back to 30% of life
    Level 4 revive => revive a champion back to 40% of life
    Level 5 revive => revive a champion back to 50% of life

    Healing potion level 1 => heal the champion for 10% of its max life
    Healing potion level 2 => heal the champion for 20% of its max life
    Healing potion level 3 => heal the champion for 30% of its max life
    Healing potion level 4 => heal the champion for 40% of its max life
    Healing potion level 5 => heal the champion for 50% of its max life

    You could do that for Normal potions & revives, AQ potions & revives, AW potions and incursion potions & revives

    another suggestion, could be to give us the possibility to upgrade our potions and revives by combining 2 lvl 1 potions to make a lvl 2 potions and so on. the same for the revive

    And you make sure the drop rate of lvl 1 potion is a bit higher than 1 every day
    And please allow auto-completion of those daily quest
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 33,135 ★★★★★

    Just realized another major positive from this decision. When 80% of the paragons quit it will seem like matchmaking isn’t quite as bad as it was

    It won’t be just the paragons who quit. It will be a lot of the player base who rely on potion farming as a part of help, to get through content
    Actually, it's likely the majority of Pot farmers (that's funny as hell) are Players who are at the mid-upper to upper crust, attacking the highest content. So it's not likely to affect that widespread.
  • ScrippsScripps Posts: 331 ★★★
    NOOO. Not right as Sandman arrives next month!! Nooooo!
  • BigPoppaCBONEBigPoppaCBONE Posts: 1,953 ★★★★★

    This thread has shown me that a lot of "I, for one, welcome this long overdue enforcement of karmic justice" people know players that somehow no skill slopped their way through EOP, Gauntlet, Abyss, etc. by drowning the content in infinite revives that they got for nothing even though you would still need to use a ton of energy items to farm any significant amount of revives in a short time, but those lames also basically cheated by abusing the Humanoid Hack Hercules, again with no skill.

    I wonder if they all know the same no skill dudes?

    What?
    What's confusing? This thread has anecdotes blaming the masses of people throwing hundreds of revives at content instead of getting good and that Hercules is also to blame because he's so OP that even the scrubbiest noob can moonwalk through Everest content easily with their maxed out 6 star, so this whole debacle is a Machiavellian scheme to hamstring the scrubs and keep them from getting unearned rewards.
  • This thread has shown me that a lot of "I, for one, welcome this long overdue enforcement of karmic justice" people know players that somehow no skill slopped their way through EOP, Gauntlet, Abyss, etc. by drowning the content in infinite revives that they got for nothing even though you would still need to use a ton of energy items to farm any significant amount of revives in a short time, but those lames also basically cheated by abusing the Humanoid Hack Hercules, again with no skill.

    I wonder if they all know the same no skill dudes?

    What?
    What's confusing? This thread has anecdotes blaming the masses of people throwing hundreds of revives at content instead of getting good and that Hercules is also to blame because he's so OP that even the scrubbiest noob can moonwalk through Everest content easily with their maxed out 6 star, so this whole debacle is a Machiavellian scheme to hamstring the scrubs and keep them from getting unearned rewards.
    I just didn’t understand what you said at first. Took a couple of reads to finally get, I just didn’t get it until after I posted that
  • PikoluPikolu Posts: 2,876 Guardian

    How is that fair?

    It isn't fair. The decision sucks and imo they should have gotten rid of it in like May so there would be plenty of time. I know with 12.0 they gave us months notice; however just like 12.0 it is a change that needs to happen for the health of the game. It isn't fair that people got to destroy content with Scarlet Witch and Thor and we only have wimpy champions like herc now in comparison (yes herc is a wimp compared to pre 12.0 Scarlet witch and Thor).

    Hopefully this decision will mean we see more balanced fights in everest content and not fights where the only way to win is spam herc with revives.
  • BigPoppaCBONEBigPoppaCBONE Posts: 1,953 ★★★★★

    This thread has shown me that a lot of "I, for one, welcome this long overdue enforcement of karmic justice" people know players that somehow no skill slopped their way through EOP, Gauntlet, Abyss, etc. by drowning the content in infinite revives that they got for nothing even though you would still need to use a ton of energy items to farm any significant amount of revives in a short time, but those lames also basically cheated by abusing the Humanoid Hack Hercules, again with no skill.

    I wonder if they all know the same no skill dudes?

    What?
    What's confusing? This thread has anecdotes blaming the masses of people throwing hundreds of revives at content instead of getting good and that Hercules is also to blame because he's so OP that even the scrubbiest noob can moonwalk through Everest content easily with their maxed out 6 star, so this whole debacle is a Machiavellian scheme to hamstring the scrubs and keep them from getting unearned rewards.
    I just didn’t understand what you said at first. Took a couple of reads to finally get, I just didn’t get it until after I posted that
    No problem. Hopefully, I was clearer the 2nd go-around.
  • LoganLogan Posts: 142 ★★

    This is a horrible decision. What about the players who farmed revives to clear Carina Challenges, and explore content like EoP, Gauntlet, etc. but now the rest of us who haven’t explored those yet don’t get the same revive resources they had available to them when they did it. How is that fair?

    I’ve been upset with Kabam plenty over the years, but if they go through with this, it is the final nail in the coffin that will lead me to quit. I’ve invested thousands into my account over the year, but no more if they take away our ability to get revives. It’s expensive enough already using heal potions on 6* R4 champs, I’m not paying 40 units per revive on top of that.

    I couldn't agree more with your viewpoint. My initial plan was to tackle a challenge every few months without feeling pressured to complete it quickly. However, the game can sometimes become monotonous, and with my hectic schedule, finding several hours of uninterrupted gameplay can be daunting. That being said, revives have somewhat alleviated the perpetual cycle of death that can often frustrate players.

    I distinctly recall attempting the gauntlet on its last release only to discover that Apoc was plagued with a bug. Despite investing my resources and spending money on units, I was too far into the map to abandon my progress. Initially, I thought the problem was on my end, but it was a game issue. Unfortunately, no compensation was offered for the ordeal, and the path that Kabam wishes to pursue may not be without its challenges.

    As the game stands, I find it relatively demanding, and I share the concern of many others that it may lead to a gradual decline in the game's popularity. After all, we've all enjoyed playing this game for the past eight years, and it would be a shame to see it slowly fade away.
  • BigPoppaCBONEBigPoppaCBONE Posts: 1,953 ★★★★★
    Pikolu said:

    How is that fair?

    It isn't fair. The decision sucks and imo they should have gotten rid of it in like May so there would be plenty of time. I know with 12.0 they gave us months notice; however just like 12.0 it is a change that needs to happen for the health of the game. It isn't fair that people got to destroy content with Scarlet Witch and Thor and we only have wimpy champions like herc now in comparison (yes herc is a wimp compared to pre 12.0 Scarlet witch and Thor).

    Hopefully this decision will mean we see more balanced fights in everest content and not fights where the only way to win is spam herc with revives.
    Yeah, that's totally what'll happen.
This discussion has been closed.