I know people who will be negatively affected by the change. *I* will be negatively affected by the change. But I can't honestly say it was unexpected or that it isn't an obviously predictable change. We can try to soften the blow to some extent with inventory changes or availability changes up to a point, but thinking this is some necessary thing players should be able to count on indefinitely is a complete break from reality, as is trying to ascribe conspiratorial motives to the change in an effort to disparage it. If you don't like it, it should be enough that you say you don't like it. The moment someone has to invent a fictional narrative to support their criticism, that criticism ceases to be valid.
They aren't helping themselves with their messaging. They're Sideshow Bob stepping on every rake they can find.
Kabam is the dude that keeps adding the cringe unnecessary bit at the end that makes you go, "Dude! Why?!"
Kabam's communications are the guy saying, "Honey, I like the other dress better than this one... because this one doesn't hide the fat. Really, I wanted to say something earlier but I decided to spare your feelings. You're welcome."
So terrible. Why didn't they lead with increasing the health item inventory and changing the potions to percentages? Then slip in the medicine with "we'll be tweaking the spread of revives in the beginner content to account for the potion enhancement."
This is a horrible decision. What about the players who farmed revives to clear Carina Challenges, and explore content like EoP, Gauntlet, etc. but now the rest of us who haven’t explored those yet don’t get the same revive resources they had available to them when they did it. How is that fair?
I’ve been upset with Kabam plenty over the years, but if they go through with this, it is the final nail in the coffin that will lead me to quit. I’ve invested thousands into my account over the year, but no more if they take away our ability to get revives. It’s expensive enough already using heal potions on 6* R4 champs, I’m not paying 40 units per revive on top of that.
This reads like a movie company from the mid 2000's claiming that internet pirates are costing them 10 trillion dollars a day for downloading their crummy straight-to-DVD movie.
Farmed revives are not lost revenue, they are the cost of doing business and letting players clear absurd content so that they can save their resources on actual deals..
Kabam did not claim that this is lost revenue. Players are claiming that. Kabam actually explicitly stated in that announcement that the problem is that those farmed resources trivialize intentionally difficult content. Because of this, the economic consequence would have to be to reduce the rewards from such content. Nowhere does Kabam mention revenue as an issue, nor imply that revenue was an issue. It isn't about the cost of those revives at all. It is about what they do to content when they can be used in an essentially unlimited manner.
Hercules is the most obvious example, but if you have unlimited resources you can face roll your way though almost any content with any champ. It would just take more with a different champ, but that doesn't matter if you literally have an unlimited supply.
If literally everyone who was farming revives started spending cash to buy them and do exactly the same thing, that would still be a problem with content design. That's not going to happen, because less than 5% of mobile game players spend money on microtransactions. Some small number will spend, and the fact that some small number of players spend to get more stuff than everyone else is factored into the design of the game, as this is a necessary prerequisite for having a game at all.
Are you implying that this isn’t lost revenue?
Let’s follow that claim down the track: if the ONLY problem is the stated problem of “spamming revives”, then once again, why not just limit the number of items you can use in a quest? The proposed solution is down right convoluted in comparison.
Your bit about 5% spending is also off the target. At any given time its fairly safe to assume that only 10% of the player base or so will ever even do the carinas challenges in the first place or ever be caught up content wise. These are the typically the only players who would even need such large quantities of revives in the first place which is where the entire problem lies. You’re obfuscating with a poorly representative statistic.
The only conclusion that’s congruent with the solution they proposed is that their revenue was being harmed
This is a horrible decision. What about the players who farmed revives to clear Carina Challenges, and explore content like EoP, Gauntlet, etc. but now the rest of us who haven’t explored those yet don’t get the same revive resources they had available to them when they did it. How is that fair?
I’ve been upset with Kabam plenty over the years, but if they go through with this, it is the final nail in the coffin that will lead me to quit. I’ve invested thousands into my account over the year, but no more if they take away our ability to get revives. It’s expensive enough already using heal potions on 6* R4 champs, I’m not paying 40 units per revive on top of that.
It is now time to farm tons of revives and do the gauntlet, the EoP and all the Carina Challenges you can before april !
Kabam, I would be real careful about this change, this isn't the same as adding relics or making champion balance changes, this affects the way we view content. We as players accepted the fact that content like labyrinth, abyss, even carina challenges are designed in a way to force players to use consumables/revives in ways such as a limited hit counter, massive health pools and attack values. Even content creators who are above the skill of average players use double digit revives for one path/objective..
"This frenzied revive farming trivializes difficult content", yea so us players can spend thousands of units to complete something you designed to be completed with revives.
With this and 7 stars, we're approaching a 12.0 2.0 situation
So what your team "deemed a reasonable amount of consumable" per day is - 1 level 1 revive, 1 level 1 potion and 1 level 4 potion....
wow!! i am so excited by the perspective of being able to heal my apocalypse of 375 HP per day out of its 56 196 HP (nearly 150 potions needed to get back to full health...) I don't have the words to describe how i feel right now considering that information.
Just a question, why don't you replace revives and healing potions by their counterpart in %
Level 1 revive => revive a champion back to 10% of life Level 2 revive => revive a champion back to 20% of life Level 3 revive => revive a champion back to 30% of life Level 4 revive => revive a champion back to 40% of life Level 5 revive => revive a champion back to 50% of life
Healing potion level 1 => heal the champion for 10% of its max life Healing potion level 2 => heal the champion for 20% of its max life Healing potion level 3 => heal the champion for 30% of its max life Healing potion level 4 => heal the champion for 40% of its max life Healing potion level 5 => heal the champion for 50% of its max life
You could do that for Normal potions & revives, AQ potions & revives, AW potions and incursion potions & revives
another suggestion, could be to give us the possibility to upgrade our potions and revives by combining 2 lvl 1 potions to make a lvl 2 potions and so on. the same for the revive
And you make sure the drop rate of lvl 1 potion is a bit higher than 1 every day And please allow auto-completion of those daily quest
Just realized another major positive from this decision. When 80% of the paragons quit it will seem like matchmaking isn’t quite as bad as it was
It won’t be just the paragons who quit. It will be a lot of the player base who rely on potion farming as a part of help, to get through content
Actually, it's likely the majority of Pot farmers (that's funny as hell) are Players who are at the mid-upper to upper crust, attacking the highest content. So it's not likely to affect that widespread.
What a disgusting money grab. Shame on you, you vultures.
How much are you planning on increasing your spending after this change? Because I wasn't planning on spending more because of this change. How exactly is this going to make money? Who's going to be spending more?
This is just wrong DNA. Do you not remember before the revive path? In most cases, it was drop an Odin or don't complete the content. This is an awful change.
This thread has shown me that a lot of "I, for one, welcome this long overdue enforcement of karmic justice" people know players that somehow no skill slopped their way through EOP, Gauntlet, Abyss, etc. by drowning the content in infinite revives that they got for nothing even though you would still need to use a ton of energy items to farm any significant amount of revives in a short time, but those lames also basically cheated by abusing the Humanoid Hack Hercules, again with no skill.
I wonder if they all know the same no skill dudes?
What?
What's confusing? This thread has anecdotes blaming the masses of people throwing hundreds of revives at content instead of getting good and that Hercules is also to blame because he's so OP that even the scrubbiest noob can moonwalk through Everest content easily with their maxed out 6 star, so this whole debacle is a Machiavellian scheme to hamstring the scrubs and keep them from getting unearned rewards.
This thread has shown me that a lot of "I, for one, welcome this long overdue enforcement of karmic justice" people know players that somehow no skill slopped their way through EOP, Gauntlet, Abyss, etc. by drowning the content in infinite revives that they got for nothing even though you would still need to use a ton of energy items to farm any significant amount of revives in a short time, but those lames also basically cheated by abusing the Humanoid Hack Hercules, again with no skill.
I wonder if they all know the same no skill dudes?
What?
What's confusing? This thread has anecdotes blaming the masses of people throwing hundreds of revives at content instead of getting good and that Hercules is also to blame because he's so OP that even the scrubbiest noob can moonwalk through Everest content easily with their maxed out 6 star, so this whole debacle is a Machiavellian scheme to hamstring the scrubs and keep them from getting unearned rewards.
I just didn’t understand what you said at first. Took a couple of reads to finally get, I just didn’t get it until after I posted that
It isn't fair. The decision sucks and imo they should have gotten rid of it in like May so there would be plenty of time. I know with 12.0 they gave us months notice; however just like 12.0 it is a change that needs to happen for the health of the game. It isn't fair that people got to destroy content with Scarlet Witch and Thor and we only have wimpy champions like herc now in comparison (yes herc is a wimp compared to pre 12.0 Scarlet witch and Thor).
Hopefully this decision will mean we see more balanced fights in everest content and not fights where the only way to win is spam herc with revives.
This thread has shown me that a lot of "I, for one, welcome this long overdue enforcement of karmic justice" people know players that somehow no skill slopped their way through EOP, Gauntlet, Abyss, etc. by drowning the content in infinite revives that they got for nothing even though you would still need to use a ton of energy items to farm any significant amount of revives in a short time, but those lames also basically cheated by abusing the Humanoid Hack Hercules, again with no skill.
I wonder if they all know the same no skill dudes?
What?
What's confusing? This thread has anecdotes blaming the masses of people throwing hundreds of revives at content instead of getting good and that Hercules is also to blame because he's so OP that even the scrubbiest noob can moonwalk through Everest content easily with their maxed out 6 star, so this whole debacle is a Machiavellian scheme to hamstring the scrubs and keep them from getting unearned rewards.
I just didn’t understand what you said at first. Took a couple of reads to finally get, I just didn’t get it until after I posted that
No problem. Hopefully, I was clearer the 2nd go-around.
Phase 1: take away access to revives Phase 2: sell more 1000-unit bundles during EQ. Phase 3: summoners with lower unitnstashes spend to hit July 4, Cyber Weekend targets. Phase 4: profit
Increase the cap to 99 would be a great start. One reason to spam revive farming is from the moment you start collecting you have like 15 days to use them.
This thread has shown me that a lot of "I, for one, welcome this long overdue enforcement of karmic justice" people know players that somehow no skill slopped their way through EOP, Gauntlet, Abyss, etc. by drowning the content in infinite revives that they got for nothing even though you would still need to use a ton of energy items to farm any significant amount of revives in a short time, but those lames also basically cheated by abusing the Humanoid Hack Hercules, again with no skill.
I wonder if they all know the same no skill dudes?
What?
What's confusing? This thread has anecdotes blaming the masses of people throwing hundreds of revives at content instead of getting good and that Hercules is also to blame because he's so OP that even the scrubbiest noob can moonwalk through Everest content easily with their maxed out 6 star, so this whole debacle is a Machiavellian scheme to hamstring the scrubs and keep them from getting unearned rewards.
Bro is defending the multi million dollar company that is consistently making anti-player moves, as a player himself ☠️
This thread has shown me that a lot of "I, for one, welcome this long overdue enforcement of karmic justice" people know players that somehow no skill slopped their way through EOP, Gauntlet, Abyss, etc. by drowning the content in infinite revives that they got for nothing even though you would still need to use a ton of energy items to farm any significant amount of revives in a short time, but those lames also basically cheated by abusing the Humanoid Hack Hercules, again with no skill.
I wonder if they all know the same no skill dudes?
What?
What's confusing? This thread has anecdotes blaming the masses of people throwing hundreds of revives at content instead of getting good and that Hercules is also to blame because he's so OP that even the scrubbiest noob can moonwalk through Everest content easily with their maxed out 6 star, so this whole debacle is a Machiavellian scheme to hamstring the scrubs and keep them from getting unearned rewards.
If the problem is Herc, then just nerf him. Removing a main source of revives harms EVERY OTHER champion probably even more than Herc and is a plain dumb roundabout way to nerf him.
I don’t understand how they expect people to complete content like Abyss. Average players will likely still spend 2 or 3 or (very likely) more revives every fight. Do they expect us to grind arena even harder for revives? People already hate arena, this game shouldn’t feel like a job. At least you could auto fight the story quests, arena is just a repetitive slog.
This is a horrible decision. What about the players who farmed revives to clear Carina Challenges, and explore content like EoP, Gauntlet, etc. but now the rest of us who haven’t explored those yet don’t get the same revive resources they had available to them when they did it. How is that fair?
I’ve been upset with Kabam plenty over the years, but if they go through with this, it is the final nail in the coffin that will lead me to quit. I’ve invested thousands into my account over the year, but no more if they take away our ability to get revives. It’s expensive enough already using heal potions on 6* R4 champs, I’m not paying 40 units per revive on top of that.
I couldn't agree more with your viewpoint. My initial plan was to tackle a challenge every few months without feeling pressured to complete it quickly. However, the game can sometimes become monotonous, and with my hectic schedule, finding several hours of uninterrupted gameplay can be daunting. That being said, revives have somewhat alleviated the perpetual cycle of death that can often frustrate players.
I distinctly recall attempting the gauntlet on its last release only to discover that Apoc was plagued with a bug. Despite investing my resources and spending money on units, I was too far into the map to abandon my progress. Initially, I thought the problem was on my end, but it was a game issue. Unfortunately, no compensation was offered for the ordeal, and the path that Kabam wishes to pursue may not be without its challenges.
As the game stands, I find it relatively demanding, and I share the concern of many others that it may lead to a gradual decline in the game's popularity. After all, we've all enjoyed playing this game for the past eight years, and it would be a shame to see it slowly fade away.
I think they wrote a bad post on purpose. They will wait for the reaction and then change the revive to be guarenteed once per day. Then they will say, we backed down and comprimised and hope that settles the community.
If they started with the guarenteed revive per day there would still be community outrage and would be more difficult to win the community over afterwards
It’s a psychological technique akin to door in face. They provide an option that is so utterly outrageous that the community unanimously rejects it. When they come back with a better version we comply and accept it because it’s better than the first option but they get what they always wanted. They know we will react negatively to this announcement. They must know. They’ll already have there “ok, community, we’ve listened to feedback and made these pro player changes” post already lined up.
This is exactly what is happening here, akin to when we see those 600 units for 2000 5* shards offers pop up before the new monthly cards. Expect some of these posts to get ghosted soon.
Because 4star Starlord in LoL is “fair content”meant to be completed without revives…
If the content isn’t meant to be bested with large revive stashes maybe you need to revisit the content and prove you can do it that way before asking us to.
It isn't fair. The decision sucks and imo they should have gotten rid of it in like May so there would be plenty of time. I know with 12.0 they gave us months notice; however just like 12.0 it is a change that needs to happen for the health of the game. It isn't fair that people got to destroy content with Scarlet Witch and Thor and we only have wimpy champions like herc now in comparison (yes herc is a wimp compared to pre 12.0 Scarlet witch and Thor).
Hopefully this decision will mean we see more balanced fights in everest content and not fights where the only way to win is spam herc with revives.
Yes this is what I posted above in a previous comment, they lost $700 million and are forcing Kabam to fill in the gap
This is a serious question. Do people actually think this is how companies work?
Scratch that. I don't really want to know. Let's talk accounting, something that few gaming company reporters and even fewer game players know anything about. Here's an excerpt from Netmarble's consolidated income statement, which was probably the source of the articles numbers:
This shows that Netmarble actually earned 40 billion won (about $31 million USD) in the fourth quarter and 46+22+21+40 = 129 billion won ($99 million USD) in 2022.
These numbers were lowered to a 20 billion won loss in Q4 or 105 billion won loss in 2022 ($81 million USD) due to D&A. D&A is depreciation and amortization. These losses are not real losses, they are collectively depreciation and amortization costs that have been spread out over time. Amortized expenses have already gone out the door, and have already been paid: they are just being accounted for here. Depreciation losses are losses due to stuff getting old. Neither of these things are actual "losses" and in general they aren't even happening now. This is almost certainly being reported on an accrual basis (meaning: when things happen and when they are accounted for are different to simplify analysis of the business numbers).
The biggest hit is due to non-operating income and cost. This is referenced in the article and in the financial statement as such: "According to Netmarble, such losses were caused by the “impairment losses of the intangible assets,” although it is unclear what assets the publisher meant by it."
Impairment losses of intangible assets refers to accounting assets on the books that do not refer to material goods. Most likely, these are IP assets Netmarble has acquired over the years with an asset valuation presumed from their estimated income generating capacity. General accounting rules specify that intangible asset impairments must be recorded on income statements as a revenue item impacting net profit and loss. In effect, my understanding of IAS 36 is that when the value of your indefinite intangible assets drops in a material way that loss in value should be recorded as a pseudo-loss in revenue that then accounts for the loss in value from the asset (basic double entry balancing accounting methodology).
In other words, Netmarble made a profit in 2022. Their amortized expenses and the amount they are allowed to depreciate fixed assets allowed them to record a small loss. The additional reduction in value of intangible assets (things that exist only on paper really) declined, allowing them to record an even steeper loss.
Because these losses are not actual cash flow losses but just accounting losses, this may be deliberate and advantageous to the company. Without knowing the specifics, we might just be seeing a clever CFO playing the game properly. But Netmarble is not losing millions of dollars.
[My wife is a CPA and I helped her study for the CPA exam. I'm a lot more familiar with GAAP and IFRS than I really want to be, but occasionally its useful.]
This thread has shown me that a lot of "I, for one, welcome this long overdue enforcement of karmic justice" people know players that somehow no skill slopped their way through EOP, Gauntlet, Abyss, etc. by drowning the content in infinite revives that they got for nothing even though you would still need to use a ton of energy items to farm any significant amount of revives in a short time, but those lames also basically cheated by abusing the Humanoid Hack Hercules, again with no skill.
I wonder if they all know the same no skill dudes?
What?
What's confusing? This thread has anecdotes blaming the masses of people throwing hundreds of revives at content instead of getting good and that Hercules is also to blame because he's so OP that even the scrubbiest noob can moonwalk through Everest content easily with their maxed out 6 star, so this whole debacle is a Machiavellian scheme to hamstring the scrubs and keep them from getting unearned rewards.
Bro is defending the multi million dollar company that is consistently making anti-player moves, as a player himself ☠️
Comments
Kabam is the dude that keeps adding the cringe unnecessary bit at the end that makes you go, "Dude! Why?!"
Kabam's communications are the guy saying, "Honey, I like the other dress better than this one... because this one doesn't hide the fat. Really, I wanted to say something earlier but I decided to spare your feelings. You're welcome."
So terrible. Why didn't they lead with increasing the health item inventory and changing the potions to percentages? Then slip in the medicine with "we'll be tweaking the spread of revives in the beginner content to account for the potion enhancement."
I’ve been upset with Kabam plenty over the years, but if they go through with this, it is the final nail in the coffin that will lead me to quit. I’ve invested thousands into my account over the year, but no more if they take away our ability to get revives. It’s expensive enough already using heal potions on 6* R4 champs, I’m not paying 40 units per revive on top of that.
Let’s follow that claim down the track: if the ONLY problem is the stated problem of “spamming revives”, then once again, why not just limit the number of items you can use in a quest? The proposed solution is down right convoluted in comparison.
Your bit about 5% spending is also off the target. At any given time its fairly safe to assume that only 10% of the player base or so will ever even do the carinas challenges in the first place or ever be caught up content wise. These are the typically the only players who would even need such large quantities of revives in the first place which is where the entire problem lies. You’re obfuscating with a poorly representative statistic.
The only conclusion that’s congruent with the solution they proposed is that their revenue was being harmed
"This frenzied revive farming trivializes difficult content", yea so us players can spend thousands of units to complete something you designed to be completed with revives.
With this and 7 stars, we're approaching a 12.0 2.0 situation
This says a lot
And you make sure the drop rate of lvl 1 potion is a bit higher than 1 every day
And please allow auto-completion of those daily quest
Hopefully this decision will mean we see more balanced fights in everest content and not fights where the only way to win is spam herc with revives.
Oh but you're okay with us spamming revives if we paid for it huh ?
Phase 2: sell more 1000-unit bundles during EQ.
Phase 3: summoners with lower unitnstashes spend to hit July 4, Cyber Weekend targets.
Phase 4: profit
If the problem is Herc, then just nerf him. Removing a main source of revives harms EVERY OTHER champion probably even more than Herc and is a plain dumb roundabout way to nerf him.
I don’t understand how they expect people to complete content like Abyss. Average players will likely still spend 2 or 3 or (very likely) more revives every fight. Do they expect us to grind arena even harder for revives? People already hate arena, this game shouldn’t feel like a job. At least you could auto fight the story quests, arena is just a repetitive slog.
I distinctly recall attempting the gauntlet on its last release only to discover that Apoc was plagued with a bug. Despite investing my resources and spending money on units, I was too far into the map to abandon my progress. Initially, I thought the problem was on my end, but it was a game issue. Unfortunately, no compensation was offered for the ordeal, and the path that Kabam wishes to pursue may not be without its challenges.
As the game stands, I find it relatively demanding, and I share the concern of many others that it may lead to a gradual decline in the game's popularity. After all, we've all enjoyed playing this game for the past eight years, and it would be a shame to see it slowly fade away.
If the content isn’t meant to be bested with large revive stashes maybe you need to revisit the content and prove you can do it that way before asking us to.
Scratch that. I don't really want to know. Let's talk accounting, something that few gaming company reporters and even fewer game players know anything about. Here's an excerpt from Netmarble's consolidated income statement, which was probably the source of the articles numbers:
This shows that Netmarble actually earned 40 billion won (about $31 million USD) in the fourth quarter and 46+22+21+40 = 129 billion won ($99 million USD) in 2022.
These numbers were lowered to a 20 billion won loss in Q4 or 105 billion won loss in 2022 ($81 million USD) due to D&A. D&A is depreciation and amortization. These losses are not real losses, they are collectively depreciation and amortization costs that have been spread out over time. Amortized expenses have already gone out the door, and have already been paid: they are just being accounted for here. Depreciation losses are losses due to stuff getting old. Neither of these things are actual "losses" and in general they aren't even happening now. This is almost certainly being reported on an accrual basis (meaning: when things happen and when they are accounted for are different to simplify analysis of the business numbers).
The biggest hit is due to non-operating income and cost. This is referenced in the article and in the financial statement as such: "According to Netmarble, such losses were caused by the “impairment losses of the intangible assets,” although it is unclear what assets the publisher meant by it."
Impairment losses of intangible assets refers to accounting assets on the books that do not refer to material goods. Most likely, these are IP assets Netmarble has acquired over the years with an asset valuation presumed from their estimated income generating capacity. General accounting rules specify that intangible asset impairments must be recorded on income statements as a revenue item impacting net profit and loss. In effect, my understanding of IAS 36 is that when the value of your indefinite intangible assets drops in a material way that loss in value should be recorded as a pseudo-loss in revenue that then accounts for the loss in value from the asset (basic double entry balancing accounting methodology).
In other words, Netmarble made a profit in 2022. Their amortized expenses and the amount they are allowed to depreciate fixed assets allowed them to record a small loss. The additional reduction in value of intangible assets (things that exist only on paper really) declined, allowing them to record an even steeper loss.
Because these losses are not actual cash flow losses but just accounting losses, this may be deliberate and advantageous to the company. Without knowing the specifics, we might just be seeing a clever CFO playing the game properly. But Netmarble is not losing millions of dollars.
[My wife is a CPA and I helped her study for the CPA exam. I'm a lot more familiar with GAAP and IFRS than I really want to be, but occasionally its useful.]